18 September 2008

18 Sep 2008


See also: IRC log


Art, Arve, Claudio, Richard_Tibbett(Orange), Josh, David_Rogers, Benoit, Marcos, Mike




<scribe> Scribe: Art

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

<scribe> Meeting: Widgets Voice Conference

Date: 18 September 2008

Agenda Review

AB: Agenda is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0670.html
... any changes?


OMTP Dependency

DR: how to we proceed with OMTP's Dependency input?

AB: we can discuss that on the mail list since it is directed to the P&C spec

DR: I'm OK with using the mail list to discuss

RT: OK with me too

MC: do you think the reqs are OK in this regard?

DR: yes

RT: can I start a discussion about Dependencies now on the mail list?

MC: yes; comments at any time on any spec are always welcome


RT: he was OMTP's author for the dependency input
... he works at Orange

AB: can we get a short update of the BONDI highlights from last week's meeting?

DR: I can try to send something out by the end of the week
... We need to update the BONDI doc to reflect the latest Widgets work that has been done
... We will continue to work on the DigSig spec; mostly via Mark Priestly
... If Marcos needs some help, please ask us

Requirement #1 LC

<drogersuk> OMTP are happy to offer assistance to webapps during the XML digital signature discussions

AB: what remains to be done to get the LC #1 DoC doc up-to-date

MC: I just need to align the document with the latest emails on the list
... Still need to get some feedback from the MWBP
... They haven't replied to my deadline with any objections
... They can of course submit comments for LC #2
... The DoC doc is 90% complete.

AB: I want to complete the DoC #1 doc before we start the LC #2 review period

Core API & Events Status

AB: during Turin we agreed to publish this doc in September
... What's the status?

Arve: what remains to be done
... the update event

and one of the features

AB: the latest ED is http://dev.w3.org/2006/waf/widgets-api/

MC: what do you need to define the states?

Arve: I'll need to check the P&C spec
... I think I have the info I need (from P&C)

AB: what about the Icons issue?

Arve: I'm not comfortable with our current level of support but we can live with this as an open issue for FPWD

AB: what about the WindowWidget Interface issue?

Arve: I talked to Cameron about this

<timeless> zakim +??P14 is marcos

Arve: we may need to add some related text to the P&C spec

AB: do we need to make the link before FPWD?

MC: no, I don't think so

Arve: I agree with Marcos

AB: I think it would be good to provide a bit more detail about the Issues identified in the spec

Arve: what is the process for agreeing on FPWD?

AB: we need to record an agreement to publish
... I propose we publish the API and Event Editor's Draft as a FPWD
... any objections?


CV: I'd like a clarification about message exchange between widgets
... Is this related to the widget context?
... Also is this related to HTML5 postMessage?

Arve: cross-widget communication is something that belongs in an Extended API
... there are some security implications as well
... UA should have some configuration mechanism about its usage (or not)

RESOLUTION: we will publish the API and Events Editor's Draft as a FPWD

<scribe> ACTION: Arve notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-247 - Notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication [on Arve Bersvendsen - due 2008-09-25].

Status of Automatic Updates spec

AB: would like a brief status

MC: I've had some other higher priority stuff come up
... hope to have it ready by early next week

AB: are you blocked on anyone?

MC: no
... Mark Baker's etag concerns could affect it

Proposal to Rename the Widget specs

AB: what is the motivation and rationale for a change?

MC: there is confusion about WebApps' widgets and "web widgets"
... the new proposal will force the reader to seek clarity by reading the Abstract and/or Intro

<marcos> Widget Packages and User Agents 1.0:

MC: it makes "Package" primary

AB: what do people think?

BS: some of the specs are not generic to the UA

CV: I share Benoit's concern

<Benoit> the user Agent defined elements are only related to the packaging

Arve: I'm not too fond of either of these proposals

<claudio> "Widget Packages 1.0 and User Agents conformance criteria: xxxx"

Arve: I'm afraid there could be confusion with those too
... how about dropping Widgets altogether

BS: we need to keep Widgts

Arve: use Web Apps rather than Widgets
... I understand the Marketing usefulness of Widgets
... We are specifiying stuff for Web Apps that we call "widgets"

<Benoit> proposition: "User Agent Widget Pakaging format"

AB: any other opinions?

<marcos> Packages for Client-side Web Applications and User Agent Conforming Criteria

DR: we've had similar discussions in OMTP

<arve> (word bloat)

DR: the point of agreement is that we are talking about Web Applications

<marcos> s/conforming/conformance

AB: without some compelling reasons I think we should stay with the names we already use
... If we make a change, it would be the third name
... We already have at least one doc in LC and it seems too late to make a change

Arve: I tend to agree with Art
... We need to make our definition the mainstream name that is used

MC: OK, let's keep it as is
... We need to keep educating people about our definition
... I agree we can have the most authoritative definition in the industry

Arve: FWIW, Google already agrees with our definition
... take a look at wikipedia

AB: I propose we keep the names of our documents as is
... any objections?


RESOLUTION: we will not change the names of our Widgets specs

Widgets V2/NextGen Feature List

AB: want to get consensus on how we move forward

CV: there is some prelim work that needs to be done first
... for example, need to get some type of scope around V2

<timeless> the cell network here is giving me network busy and kicking me off

CV: We may get lots of additional requirements
... Regarding a doc or wiki, I think we need to know what we plan to add
... Regarding V1.0 reqs, we didn't do a lot of Use Case work
... We should probably do some UC work for v2.0

MC: I agree with Claudio re UCs for v2.0

AB: so you support doing some UC work for v2.0?

MC: yes

AB: any other comments?
... I support doing UC work for v2.0
... My only concern is that it not take away time/resources from our 1.0 work

MC: agree on the resource issue

AB: seems like we should document the general ideas we have now for v2.0
... but not do any detailed work until next year
... Don't want to disrupt v1.0 spec work
... Claudio, Marcos - can we start using a wiki now?
... And defer the question about using a document for a few months?

CV: that's OK with me

MC: yes, that's OK
... and if Claudio wants to take the initial lead that's OK

MS: Claudio should be able to gain access without me getting involved

etag attr

AB: we don't have time to discuss this today
... if you have any comments, send them to public-webapps


AB: any topics?
... regarding TAG joint meeting, Roy Fielding isn't a member of the TAG any more; Stuart Williams will not be in Mandelieu
... that means it may be difficult to get some f2f time with at TAG member but I will try
... anything else?


AB: Meeting Adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Arve notify Art when the API and Events API is ready for Publication [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/09/18 12:12:23 $

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[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Topic: Annoucements/Topic: OMTP Dependency/
Succeeded: s/WindowWindow/WindowWidget/
FAILED: s/conforming/conformance/
Found Scribe: Art
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Default Present: +44.797.352.aaaa, Art_Barstow, +47.23.69.aabb, arve, +39.011.228.aacc, Josh_Soref, +44.777.183.aadd, David_Rogers, Caroline, marcos, Mike, +44.208.849.aaee
Present: Art Arve Claudio Richard_Tibbett(Orange) Josh David_Rogers Benoit Marcos Mike
Regrets: Thomas
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/0670.html
Found Date: 18 Sep 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/09/18-wam-minutes.html
People with action items: arve

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