<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

<scribe> ScribeNick: oedipus

<Charlie> not so far, no

http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_create_accessible_JavaScript_widgets

<Charlie> lost you

Starting Up - Agenda Review

1. Starting work on the XForms simplified syntax in the Ubiquity project. How (or is) this related to the Backplane?

2. Plans for demo(s) -- what can we show given current focus areas? a. custom controls for ubiquity library in YUI; b. Data model integration in YUI and Dojo; C. SMIL integration with XForms models; d. Extending the simple loan form with accessibility features (ARIA enabled loan form?)

3. Finalize goals for joint meetings at Tech Plenary -- given the above, which WGs to meet?

for reference: http://code.google.com/p/ubiquity-xforms/wiki/StorySimplifiedSyntax

CW: discuss ARIA and XForms - talk about what it means to be "ARIA enabled" - bit more context might lead into main topic - plan for TPAC 2008
... email with Debi Dahl - MMI WG or Voice/MMI joint meeting - an hour on tuesday or thursday
... liaising with PF WG and Al Gilman
... John, web-apps APIs - forms discussion and backplane discussion
... how does all of what we've discussed fit together; cross-over with groups we want to meet with at TPAC2008

ARIA-Enabled - What Does It Mean?

CW: connect dots between ARIA properties and xforms ubiquity project - loan example

GJR: ARIA discussion

CW: dojo starts with div - causes dojo runtime to expand that and then render DIV in accordance to script block

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-role/

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/

<Steven> http://dojotoolkit.org/book/dojo-book-0-4/part-8-internationalization-and-accessiblity/accessibility/web-accessibility-issu

CW: ubiquity xforms supports data-binding, xforms notification events - controls extended to accessibility APIs
... need to do more than support @role - can understand how would hook together
... example of what should do for TPAC -
... interesting thread of investigation
... how much can be leveraged out of widgets in dojo

GJR: also YUI supporting ARIA

CW: data model work in dojo ported to YUI

Toolbag Review

CW: what makes sense and who to contact at TPAC
... base work on ubiquity library itself - XML Events and work towards embedding xforms functionality in AJAX and dojo
... ubiquity not yet fully implemented - can mix and match as needed
... ubiquity cross-platform delivery programming model -
... custom control - how to use native components in calendars or color picker - binding presentatino object using XForms; data model refactoring data model; SMIL state oriented API - bridging mechanism; not just GUI methodology but multi-modal methodology
... decide on core scenario or demo
... thoughts from those on call - who to impact, what specifics to discuss, what best demo to cover as many cases as possible
... contact with Voice and WAI-PF

JB: not had a chance to put anything together - interested in (a) modularizatino of components - how much will be available; modules used independently would have IDL libraries associated with them, not just declarative markup
... interest in how the things actually work to create behavior
... short of m12n, ubiquity library - through script libraries able to achieve functionality which xforms rec specified; for large classses of W3C technologies not being held back by UA implementatino; scripts could wire together a centralized data model using components from data libraries bilaterally communicationg; W3C markups that automatically imply behaviors from other W3C specs; xforms controls needs note that input is "rude"
... messaging about core library without modularization

CW: isn't this all an XBL story? using XBL in stripped down version due to lack of UA support
... doesn't detract from core of JB's point; what we want is clean runtime support for w3c supplied program letter

SP: second a lot of what JB said; i see our main message being W3C architecture where W3C techs can be plugged together; don't have to define techs monolithically, but can be pieced together, important top-level message; should be unified visino of how W3C should work
... second message to communicate is don't have to depend on UA devs to achieve this - can still make happen because UAs are extensible via script that is largely invisible/under the covers

CW: could make points with non-modularized ubiquity - runs in YUI, has controls associated with it, but is still xforms 1.1 app

SP: dojo is extending UAs without UAs having anything to do with it; W3C technologies can be leveraged to do the very same thing

CW: added load method to trigger reloading - flags events when done

JB: that's good

CW: more confident - might have utility for non-xforms markup - especially from behavior POV; can talk about this with Forms WG

JB: flickr demo, too - uses separate modules; don't need to have m12n complete to get out message - W3C standards and features can be supported, m12n promotes greater adoption and interoperability
... platform message - can make argument that AJAX/Javascript library allows w3c techs to be implemented and provided without the UA participation; allows us as community to find out what works, what needws work, proof-of-value; may sway UA devs for native support
... XBL skimmed down due to IE limitations; another data point for native XBL - XForms component becaumes popular, will be demand for native UA support

CW: messaging around core ubiquity library - embedding in YUI and CSS - refactoring data side would be strong message in aand of itself

JB: same class of small apps - purchase order form - more dynamic than just repeat; if can show accessiblity smarts, that is good third message to bring to we apps group - creating content with xforms, gettting good accessibility behavior, just using dojo library would have to do yourself;
... first ring: javascript/AJAX for implementation of W3C techs; second: modularization; third: accessibility automatic behaviors can get amongst separate techs through platform

CW: extend ubiquity xforms with subset of notations

cak jackjansen

JJ: fourth ring follows from second and third - if write web apps modularized and with ARIA, can be leveraged to DI - could have big impact on way web app devs can get stuff out

JB: 1 strength is multi-modality (re-targetting) - always address from implementor side; JJ descirbed how web app community could do this with module replacement - verb part of our noun

CW: like the 4 rings as message

JB: how do you write a dojo app - adding controls to elements that ask for certain scripted behavior - showing simplified syntax very appealing to web apps group - looks like what they are used to (controls with attributeds) - can be done both ways

CW: content-generation model - empty page with DIVs - content generated underneath div for content generation; sitll there, but one step abstracted
... presentation generation

JB: there is nothing strange about set of W3C techs we are providing; looks, works, and smells like dojo

CW: content generation cycle - about to get into design discussions - repeatable process with multiple iterations over time
... looping manner aspect very useful
... backplane XG connection with authoring and composability of w3c artifacts and how relate to web and serve as components that can be mixed and matched; content generation at page load
... thanks for pointing that out
... syntax, demos - what else?
... consider JJ's SMIL demo something in back pocket; could do demo on my machine
... GJR follow up offline on accessibility stuff

GJR: yes will work on simple loan app

JB: one hope is might be able to ARIA enable processor

CW: do version of abstract control that is ARIA-enabled; loan form good because only few element types

JJ, accessibility equals accessibility; m12n equals modularization

<Steven> ack -

thanks steven

CW: can join Forms call

JB: might help if you do it; can get Forms WG on thursday
... both backplane and forms meeting

CW: separate conversation around simplified syntax with HTML guys

JB: right

CW: anything else for today?
... regrets for upcoming meetings?
... push ahead then

ADJOURNED

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/a11y/accessibility/G
Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Default Present: Gregory_Rosmaita, Charlie, Jack_Jansen, [IBM], John_Boyer, Steven
Present: Charlie Gregory_Rosmaita Jack_Jansen John_Boyer Steven Rahul_on_IRC Kevin_on_IRC
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-app-backplane/2008Aug/0015.html
Got date from IRC log name: 19 Aug 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/08/19-backplane-minutes.html
People with action items: 

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