User Agent Teleconference for 24 July 2008 -- 24 Jul 2008

scribe Simon Harper

<scribe> scribe: Simon Harper

<scribe> ScribeNick: sharper

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results

JB: Meetings to continue through July and August 2008

<Alan> Hello...

JB: Results available at http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/UAWG20080723/results
... How close to Heartbeat 1
... Towards end of August 2008

<Judy> ACTION: jb check on the pending question about timing of next publication vs timing of charter review for rechartering obligation [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]

JA: W3C Process - WG must put a new working draft out every 3 months to make sure the group is still working - means not working in the dark
... first Draft at CSUN in March 2008

JB: Plan for the end of August for the next draft.

RESOLUTION: Group aims for the end of August to publish next draft.

<AllanJ> http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm

JA: Did everyone see http://www.tsbvi.edu/technology/uawg/thrashing.htm

JS: Listed principles and success criteria, went through and refined them and assigned a level now a much more focused list. Final results then split into levels. Then we have a list of everything removed (and more).

JA: Some of the removed ones (say 3rd) - have target destinations (just a feeling) - no specific place to drop it in.

JS: Concerned these may be lost.

<scribe> ACTION: JA: Place these possible lost items into the 'correct' locations. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<AllanJ> http://www.w3.org/tr/uaag20

JB: Any of the items flagged with 'SHOULD' need to be in a new list / location.

Moving through Guideline 4.1 Ensure full keyboard access

JA: Sequential keyboard commands (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to navigate between every UI operable control and interactive element in the rendered content. Level A

NOTE: These follow conventions, see 1.1

JA: Like hitting alt and then arrow keys to move through

JB: Maybe good as a test of these to read it out and see if there are any questions - may miss understanding, if concentrating on interpretation.

AC: Question - did we agree keyboard commands was a code-word / short hand for interaction by keyboard.

JS: I think so - do you have concerns.

AC: possible - lets wait - may need a small change later.
... Doesn't see tab etc as a command as opposed to a keypress

JS: Agree

JB: Agree

KF: OK to replace terminology

ALL: Good change.

JB UI better than chrome but what is 'UI operable control and interactive element'

JA: Phrase-ology to indicate they must be operable - no tabbing through greyed out items on a menu.

AC: Windows menus now - can navigate to a greyed out item - is a good thing as the menu isn't growing and shortening in length. Maintains consistent behaviour - suggest 'every control' - not operable control

JB: Very different things

JA: Need to keep software and content separate.
... Lets agree on AC point and remove operable - objects?

KF: Default behaviour for inactive controls can't tab to them always - menus you can - dialogues you can't.

JB: Is one way to look at this - this is a level A requirement - identify it as every operable control - at this level, does that help?

KF: Akin to the philosophy used on Tuesday. Add a second one for AA to remove the operable - also want to follow OS conventions - Advocate leaving it as is, if we want to tab to all make this a level 2 option?

AC: struggling with this...

<AllanJ> SH: say: unless overridden by operating system convetion

KF: Gives an out, by adding confusion.

JA: OK for changes including AC changes wording just 'Key presses'

<AllanJ> Key presses (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to navigate between every UI operable control, and interactive element in the rendered content.

<jeanne> Key presses (tab, arrow, etc.) can be used to navigate between every UI operable control, and between every interactive element in the rendered content.

JB: Objections... None.

Caret browse and select can be used to navigate between characters in rendered text content (incremental - character, word, line, element, all).

AC: What is it? Allows keyboard navigation to all content that you a browsing.

A Possible Definition:

The term caret is used in graphical user interface terminology where it means a text insertion point indicator, frequently represented by a blinking vertical bar. In this context, it may be used interchangeably with the word cursor, although the latter term is often reserved for a mouse pointer.

JS: Any text in the rendered context...

AC refinement - break into 2: navigation and select?

<jeanne> Any text in the rendered content can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard.

AC: Any text or picture:

JS: Any element? Object?

JA: Some elements could be a problem - re flash

<jeanne> Text in the rendered content can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard.

KF: That is not beyond user agents control.

JB: does this gives us the meaning we think it does

AC: need some generic phrase to capture this

<AllanJ> SH: don't we really mean CUT/PASTE

<AllanJ> SH: replace TEXT with RENDERED CONTENT

<AllanJ> JS: text is too important., Rendered content does't mean character, etc.

<AllanJ> SH: put the parenthetical back in (incremental ...)

<jeanne> Rendered content (character, word, line, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard.

<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard.

KF: Too complicated, paragraph selection is above and beyond - what you want is to select as implemented in the OS - see 1.1

JA: Do we really need to say this on everyone?

<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard. See 1.1

JB: should it be see guideline 1.1 or a full phrase re OS conventions?

JS: last

KF: none - let's not repeat ourselves.
... should say at the beginning (in one spot) which?

<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard consistent with operating system conventions.

<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g.character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard (consistent with operating system conventions).

JB: Tend to want to move on right now -

<jeanne> Rendered content (e.g. by character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard (consistent with operating system conventions).

<scribe> ACTION: KFord Clarify - Rendered content (e.g. by character, word, line, paragraph, image, element, all) can be navigated and/or selected using the keyboard (consistent with operating system conventions). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]

No keyboard trap. The user agent provides at least one hot key to restore keyboard focus to a known location.

AC: known location - ambiguous - if long page, if only way to restore focus is (alt+D) could be a problem.

JB: Other provisions are sentences to introduce the point - should be consistent - frame the checkpoint - shorthand to the group - not suitable for general.

JA: remove No keyboard trap is OK?

JB: Still not right?

JA: Any developers will understand keyboard trap?

KF: No
... Do we need to get this down to letter perfect level?

JB: no
... checking inadvertant interpretations - not letter perfect

JA: Issue Kelly?

KF: No

JB: looks sloppy compared to others

AC: agree

JA: Anyone does not know?

<jeanne> The user agent provides at least one keyboard command to restore keyboard focus to a default location.

JA: Escape is critical

<jeanne> The user agent provides at least one prominent keyboard command (e.g. escape key) to move keyboard focus to a default location.

JB: not obscure hot key - what about escape?

<scribe> ACTION: Allanj Clarify- The user agent provides at least one prominent keyboard command (e.g. escape key) to move keyboard focus to a default location. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/24-ua-minutes.html#action04]

KF: don't want to see escape key - not appropriate

Direct keyboard commands can be used to activate the following important functions

JA: the List is already mentioned elsewhere.
... this just says you have to have a keyboard control for the list (defined elsewhere)

JB: Maybe forgo the list, thoughts?

AC: should we use keyboard presses as opposed to commands

JA: term needed for browser control

JS: would like to get away from sequential and direct

AC: key-presses would get you the entire list - except maybe volume control?

<jeanne> Key press can be used to activate the following important functions (list) Level A

AC: lets go to 5 and return to 4 at the end of the telecon

User has the option to configure the keyboard processing order (UI, extensions, recognized content (Access key, AT), unrecognized content)

JB: all in () could be interpreted differently by different people - can we clarify?
... is it intended to be a flat list?

JA: yes
... should start on 4 next week
... thrash wording next week as opposed to section review?
... Regarding (Remove - should be in...) items

JB: address A.4 A.5 and AA.1 next week

- DRAFT -

User Agent Teleconference for 24 July 2008

24 Jul 2008

Attendees

Contents

Summary of Action Items

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