XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference

09 Jul 2008


See also: IRC log



ShaneM, Roland, Tina, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, alessio




<scribe> chair: Roland Merrick

<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

<scribe> scribeNick: oedipus


RM: TAG finding on passwords in clear; Shane and Tina investigated

SM: have not gotten to it

TH: re-read, but not found any other comments than those i made during the last WG call

SM: will coordinate response with TH

RM: XSD - identified MarkB as best reviewer, haven't heard back from him; hasn't been able to attend calls in a while
... allowing comments until 1 september 2008

CURIE Syntax

RM: transition progress?

SP: sent transition req, but no reply; will follow up again

RM: wonder why we have such a lag-time everytime we put in a transition req
... holiday in US may have gummed things up temporarily

SP: on vacation until middle of next week after that, working half time

RM: good at least to have some explanation on that

How HTML5 relates to XHTML

SP: had delays will try and get out tomorrow morning

Role transition to CR

RM: are we ready?

SM: ready

proposed RESOLVED: request transition Role Module for to CR

SP: +1

<ShaneM> +1

GJR: +1

proposed RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR

Alessio: +1

<Tina> +1

<inserted> RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR

GJR: interested in shane's comment

SP: moment to address testing Role attribute

GJR: is ARIA proof-of-concept - have partial implementations, but not the type we really want

SM: ARIA spec doesn't use Role module - so wrong technically
... ARIA using Role module in way XHTML2 hasn't specified

GJR: but ARIA is derived from role, even if it isn't implemented as part of Role module

SP: can show that implementation used Role attribute to achieve ARIA - hook to hang things off of, and ARIA does that, by using extensibility mechanism

RM: ARIA doesn't say you can't associate with Role

SM: yes, but saying browser x uses Role, needs to be actually using Role as defined

SP: ARIA uses rules of extensibility for Role
... things that use Role in ways consistent with what Role intended to do - need 2 implementations
... if show @class being used, would show 2 CSS implementations that select off class; think can do similar with Role

Alessio: DOM implementation identifying elements by Role - could be proof of application

SM: wrote such a javascript function

SP: mozilla uses role attribute, we have a javascript to handle Role, can tick implementation boxes - only need to prove that can be implemented

RM: conformance test?

SM: nothing to conform to

RM: only need to show that role attribute is picked up by UA so is available for whatever purpose one needs

TH: new version of quality testing tool tests for role usage - doesn't do anything with them, but flag whether present or not

SM: Tina that is valuable - application using Role attribute satisfies criteria; in past test has been - is it used in ML; not in any ML

SP: 1 reason argued in past was all modules things tghat had been implemented; no new conformance criteria; creating module here and want ML that uses it, but can show semantics are being used
... close to way @class works; no pure semantics; can't test Role on its own, but can show it being used in other specificiations and implementations
... need to state CR exit criteria; Role in and of itself doesn't require processing because hook for processing, but during CR will show being used in various pieces of software

GJR: quote from ARIA spec: "2.1. WAI-ARIA Roles

An ARIA role is set on an element using the a role attribute similar to the one defined in the XHTML Role Attribute Module [XHTML-ROLES].

GJR: didn't catch "similar"

<scribe> ACTION: Gregory - ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]

XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR


SP: voting ends on 15 july - trying to drum up votes - IBM hasn't voted yet (nudge, nudge); neither have mobile people
... mobile best practices waiting for this so they can transition; can't ask for transition to rec until comments collected; asked if someone can take my role over for organizing transition; would write transition request and hand off to Francois Daoust; will probably take over team contact from me and request transition; will be on holiday
... when voting ends on 15 july, will FD will transition - should be transitioned by second to last week of month

M12N transition: status

RM: Shane, have you worked with IanJ on new shortnames?


SM: issues with XML Schema RDFa which uses M12n 1.1
... made a few VERY minor changes to fix bug - not a normative change, just works around a bug to assist with validation



SP: tested and works for me
... should test on IvanH's framework
... looking poor in terms of voting - voting ends 15 July 2008; need to solicit comments - please remind AC reps!!!
... Alessio, can you make sure IWG votes on M12n and Basic?

Alessio: will do

SP: RM, please make sure IBM votes

SM: Sun Microsystems obvious candidate;

SP: HP already voted

GJR: can get Steve Faulkner of paciello group (member institution) to vote citing accessibility POV

SM: XForms - schema implementation, so votes would be good

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlmod11-2008/

<ShaneM> .me has not seen a response - could have missed it. maybe only in the working group list?

next TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 SE status or RelaxNG and M12n

SM: when preparing comments from HTML WG would be good to mention in draft, explaining why media type application+xml is "XHTML5"

<Tina> Steven: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#html-vs

M12n and RelaxNG

<Steven> thanks

SM: problem with XML Schema - reminded why RelaxNG better way going forward; m12n architecture assumes certain things about how one will extend module; RDFa extends module in way that isn't consistent

SP: really?

SM: introduces attributes that are already on other elements in existing modules

SP: @href everywhere issue

SM: avoided by not allowing @href everywhere
... problem is: can't define an attribute twice
... if defined exactly same way twice, schema processor should recognize the union, but it doesn't
... RelaxNG easily creates union;
... need to document this
... don't use module implementation when collision
... Link module - RDFa no longer contains link module - integrated in way that won't crash, which is legal (content model and how to extend and use subsets) but can't reuse this stuff

SP: Schema should have forseen -- should be compatible with DTD and expect would perform union

SM: disappointing - strategies to accomodate such use, but didn't employ in basic def of module

SP: so req for future versions of M12n

SM: if define attribute groups for every single attribute on every element, could do binding, but that is an extreme remedy

XHTML 1.1 SE status

RM: what to do with 1.1 SE versus 1.2 with extra features; wating for 1.1 m12n completion?

SM: yes, just schema implementation stuff

SP: this is really a PER - nothing to argue about

SM: can't imagine there would be

SP: add @target to 1.1 - would prefer not - those who need/want to use will have impetus to adapt 1.2

SM: put nothing in 1.1

SP: makes easier to get through to say 1.1 is just 1.1 with schemas; changes will be in 1.2

RM: errata folded in?

SM: no errata

SP: isn't there something Anne VanK objected to because didn't make change

SM: ID versus IDREF - client side image map - can change in future ML, but can't break conformance

SP: so that's a 1.2 change

SM: right - notghing to do with 1.1 PER

RM: proposal for 1.2?

SP: need to agree which features to put in 1.2

RM: thought SP had action to create first draft (listed in tracker)

GJR: so we are NOT adding @target to 1.1, right?

XHTML2 Public Draft

SM: closing in on it - should be available relatively soon

RM: need XML Events 2 out the door?

SM: references it, but not dependent on it

RM: next call devote discussion on XML Events 2
... timing issue and a few others to make sure comfortable with new draft of XML Events 2 - don't need to change draft to control timing mechanisms; registering and deregistering listeners

Other Issues

SP: away for the next 3 calls

RM: results of survey?

<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2summer08/results

SP: MarkB didn't reply

RM: alright into august

SP: will be back on 6 august

RM: will be away a month the following week
... no need to cancel for next 4 weeks
... other items?


roland and/or steven, we never formally adopted the proposed resolution: "request Role Module transition to CR" - should i correct in minutes? can insert resolution

RESOLUTION: request Role Module transition to CR

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Gregory - ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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Succeeded: s/HTML5/XHTML5/
Succeeded: s/explaining media type/explaining why media type/
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Succeeded: i/GJR: interested in shane's comment/RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
Found ScribeNick: oedipus
Default Present: ShaneM, Roland, Tina, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, alessio
Present: ShaneM Roland Tina Gregory_Rosmaita Steven alessio
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0010.html
Got date from IRC log name: 09 Jul 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html
People with action items: - 2.1 answser aria ask gregory inserted into of pfwg similar spec why

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