See also: IRC log
<scribe> chair: Roland Merrick
<scribe> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
<scribe> scribeNick: oedipus
RM: TAG finding on passwords in clear; Shane and Tina investigated
SM: have not gotten to it
TH: re-read, but not found any other comments than those i made during the last WG call
SM: will coordinate response with TH
RM: XSD - identified MarkB as best reviewer,
haven't heard back from him; hasn't been able to attend calls in a while
... allowing comments until 1 september 2008
RM: transition progress?
SP: sent transition req, but no reply; will follow up again
RM: wonder why we have such a lag-time
everytime we put in a transition req
... holiday in US may have gummed things up temporarily
SP: on vacation until middle of next week after that, working half time
RM: good at least to have some explanation on that
SP: had delays will try and get out tomorrow morning
RM: are we ready?
SM: ready
proposed RESOLVED: request transition Role Module for to CR
SP: +1
<ShaneM> +1
GJR: +1
proposed RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
Alessio: +1
<Tina> +1
<inserted> RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR
GJR: interested in shane's comment
SP: moment to address testing Role attribute
GJR: is ARIA proof-of-concept - have partial implementations, but not the type we really want
SM: ARIA spec doesn't use Role module - so
wrong technically
... ARIA using Role module in way XHTML2 hasn't specified
GJR: but ARIA is derived from role, even if it isn't implemented as part of Role module
SP: can show that implementation used Role attribute to achieve ARIA - hook to hang things off of, and ARIA does that, by using extensibility mechanism
RM: ARIA doesn't say you can't associate with Role
SM: yes, but saying browser x uses Role, needs to be actually using Role as defined
SP: ARIA uses rules of extensibility for
Role
... things that use Role in ways consistent with what Role intended to do -
need 2 implementations
... if show @class being used, would show 2 CSS implementations that select
off class; think can do similar with Role
Alessio: DOM implementation identifying elements by Role - could be proof of application
SM: wrote such a javascript function
SP: mozilla uses role attribute, we have a javascript to handle Role, can tick implementation boxes - only need to prove that can be implemented
RM: conformance test?
SM: nothing to conform to
RM: only need to show that role attribute is picked up by UA so is available for whatever purpose one needs
TH: new version of quality testing tool tests for role usage - doesn't do anything with them, but flag whether present or not
SM: Tina that is valuable - application using Role attribute satisfies criteria; in past test has been - is it used in ML; not in any ML
SP: 1 reason argued in past was all modules
things tghat had been implemented; no new conformance criteria; creating
module here and want ML that uses it, but can show semantics are being
used
... close to way @class works; no pure semantics; can't test Role on its own,
but can show it being used in other specificiations and implementations
... need to state CR exit criteria; Role in and of itself doesn't require
processing because hook for processing, but during CR will show being used in
various pieces of software
GJR: quote from ARIA spec: "2.1. WAI-ARIA Roles
An ARIA role is set on an element using the a role attribute similar to the one defined in the XHTML Role Attribute Module [XHTML-ROLES].
GJR: didn't catch "similar"
<scribe> ACTION: Gregory - ask PFWG why "similar" inserted into 2.1 of ARIA spec and answser to ShaneM's query about Role and ARIA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html#action01]
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/xhtml-m12n-11-implementation.html
SP: voting ends on 15 july - trying to drum up
votes - IBM hasn't voted yet (nudge, nudge); neither have mobile people
... mobile best practices waiting for this so they can transition; can't ask
for transition to rec until comments collected; asked if someone can take my
role over for organizing transition; would write transition request and hand
off to Francois Daoust; will probably take over team contact from me and
request transition; will be on holiday
... when voting ends on 15 july, will FD will transition - should be
transitioned by second to last week of month
RM: Shane, have you worked with IanJ on new shortnames?
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-xhtml-minutes.html#action03
SM: issues with XML Schema RDFa which uses M12n
1.1
... made a few VERY minor changes to fix bug - not a normative change, just
works around a bug to assist with validation
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/17-xhtml-minutes.html#action03
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/xhtml-m12n-11-implementation.html
SP: tested and works for me
... should test on IvanH's framework
... looking poor in terms of voting - voting ends 15 July 2008; need to
solicit comments - please remind AC reps!!!
... Alessio, can you make sure IWG votes on M12n and Basic?
Alessio: will do
SP: RM, please make sure IBM votes
SM: Sun Microsystems obvious candidate;
SP: HP already voted
GJR: can get Steve Faulkner of paciello group (member institution) to vote citing accessibility POV
SM: XForms - schema implementation, so votes would be good
<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlmod11-2008/
<ShaneM> .me has not seen a response - could have missed it. maybe only in the working group list?
next TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 SE status or RelaxNG and M12n
SM: when preparing comments from HTML WG would be good to mention in draft, explaining why media type application+xml is "XHTML5"
<Tina> Steven: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/html5/#html-vs
<Steven> thanks
SM: problem with XML Schema - reminded why RelaxNG better way going forward; m12n architecture assumes certain things about how one will extend module; RDFa extends module in way that isn't consistent
SP: really?
SM: introduces attributes that are already on other elements in existing modules
SP: @href everywhere issue
SM: avoided by not allowing @href everywhere
... problem is: can't define an attribute twice
... if defined exactly same way twice, schema processor should recognize the
union, but it doesn't
... RelaxNG easily creates union;
... need to document this
... don't use module implementation when collision
... Link module - RDFa no longer contains link module - integrated in way
that won't crash, which is legal (content model and how to extend and use
subsets) but can't reuse this stuff
SP: Schema should have forseen -- should be compatible with DTD and expect would perform union
SM: disappointing - strategies to accomodate such use, but didn't employ in basic def of module
SP: so req for future versions of M12n
SM: if define attribute groups for every single attribute on every element, could do binding, but that is an extreme remedy
RM: what to do with 1.1 SE versus 1.2 with extra features; wating for 1.1 m12n completion?
SM: yes, just schema implementation stuff
SP: this is really a PER - nothing to argue about
SM: can't imagine there would be
SP: add @target to 1.1 - would prefer not - those who need/want to use will have impetus to adapt 1.2
SM: put nothing in 1.1
SP: makes easier to get through to say 1.1 is just 1.1 with schemas; changes will be in 1.2
RM: errata folded in?
SM: no errata
SP: isn't there something Anne VanK objected to because didn't make change
SM: ID versus IDREF - client side image map - can change in future ML, but can't break conformance
SP: so that's a 1.2 change
SM: right - notghing to do with 1.1 PER
RM: proposal for 1.2?
SP: need to agree which features to put in 1.2
RM: thought SP had action to create first draft (listed in tracker)
GJR: so we are NOT adding @target to 1.1, right?
SM: closing in on it - should be available relatively soon
RM: need XML Events 2 out the door?
SM: references it, but not dependent on it
RM: next call devote discussion on XML Events
2
... timing issue and a few others to make sure comfortable with new draft of
XML Events 2 - don't need to change draft to control timing mechanisms;
registering and deregistering listeners
SP: away for the next 3 calls
RM: results of survey?
<Steven> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/32107/xhtml2summer08/results
SP: MarkB didn't reply
RM: alright into august
SP: will be back on 6 august
RM: will be away a month the following week
... no need to cancel for next 4 weeks
... other items?
ADJOURNED
roland and/or steven, we never formally adopted the proposed resolution: "request Role Module transition to CR" - should i correct in minutes? can insert resolution
RESOLUTION: request Role Module transition to CR
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/during last call/during the last WG call/ Succeeded: s/comment form/vote citing/ Succeeded: s/HTML5/XHTML5/ Succeeded: s/explaining media type/explaining why media type/ Succeeded: s/M12n redux/M12n and RelaxNG/ Succeeded: s/RDF extends/RDFa extends/ Succeeded: i/GJR: interested in shane's comment/RESOLVED: request Role Module transition to CR Found Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita Found ScribeNick: oedipus Default Present: ShaneM, Roland, Tina, Gregory_Rosmaita, Steven, alessio Present: ShaneM Roland Tina Gregory_Rosmaita Steven alessio Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0010.html Got date from IRC log name: 09 Jul 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-xhtml-minutes.html People with action items: - 2.1 answser aria ask gregory inserted into of pfwg similar spec why WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]