See also: IRC log
I can scribe
<ChrisW> Scribe: StellaMitchell
<ChrisW> PROPOSED: accept Minutes from July 1 telecon
cw: any objections to accepting minutes from last week?
<ChrisW> RESOLVED: accept Minutes from July 1 telecon
cw: any agenda ammendments?
cw: next f2f end of Sept in NY. I would like to know whether people prefer Hawnthorne or at IBM facility in Manhattan
<josb> +1 Manhattan
cw: please let me know if you have a preference. Default is in Hawthorne
<AxelPolleres> I prefer the lower cost options to some extent.
<AxelPolleres> yes, I did
cw: all documents are frozen except for FLD?
job: rdf/owl is not frozen. I'm waiting for BLD freeze, and wiki was broken today
<AxelPolleres> I will also send some more comments to you by tonite, jos.
josb: it will be ready to be frozen tomorrow
harold: FLD is promised by this friday, but will try for earlier
cw: action review
action-530 will be complete by friday
jos: review of FLD by next tuesday
cw: dtb is frozen and waiting for
... adrian, is there a person assigned to review UCR?
adrian: no, not yet
cw: volunteer to review UCR?
I can review UCR
<ChrisW> ACTION: Stella to review UCR for next WD [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-539 - Review UCR for next WD [on Stella Mitchell - due 2008-07-15].
cw: BLD will be reviewed by Leora
... FLD by chris and jos by next tuesday
yes, by end of week
cw: DTB by Chris
... rdf/owl ready for review by tomorrow
<ChrisW> ACTION: Axel to review BLD for LC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-540 - Review BLD for LC [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-07-15].
cw: prd is already reviewed
jos: and I will review BLD by the end of this week
<ChrisW> ACTION: jos to review bld [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - jos
<trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. jdebruij2, jderoo)
<ChrisW> ACTION: jdebruij2 to review bld [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-541 - Review bld [on Jos de Bruijn - due 2008-07-15].
cw: Sandro put the mime types in BLD. Has anyone reviewed?
harold: yes, it looks good
cw: do you need any changes?
harold: no, it's fine. Security
is an open ended topic.
... he talks about documents that come by dereferencing, but not about other things such as computaiton that does not end
<DaveReynolds> Surely the current wording addresses both?
harold: so, he picks one particular example, but doesn't mention other cases
cw: are you talking about implementations or specific rule sets?
harold: yes, he doesn't mention rule sets that will cause compuation that doesn't end
<Harold> Sandro mentions: "Through the use of "import", it may
<Harold> also require arbitrary URI dereferencing, which may consume
<Harold> all available network resources on the consuming system or
<Harold> other systems."
daver: I think the current text covers that case
cw: yes, I also think it does
cw: any other comments on mime type?
cw: axel, can you summarize this issue?
axel: in the DTB document,
section 4.3 cast and conversion functions
... casts from and to rif:iri - do we want these, and how should we do them
... and there was also a question about from rif:text to string
... first, we have to wait until we resolve rif:text with owl working group
... should conversion take only the string, or the string with the language tag
... both would be fine, currently only take the string part
... rif: iri (4.3.5 and 4.3.6) function style is possible in one direction, if we define axiomatic equalities (4.3.5)
... but this is not possible in the other direction, because the axioms would cause inconsistencies
... I prefer functions wherever possible, and predicate only where function can't be used
... (as opposed to making from and to rif:iri both predicates)
... mk and jos said the predicate will cover both directions of casting
jos: yes, the function is redundant, and another argument against 4.3.5 is that is is not a function in the way that the other casting functions are, because rif:iri is not a data type
axel: I agree that what you say is true, but still want to leave it the way it is
jos: simpler and more understandable to have the one predicate
cw: are you arguing to use this method for all cases?
jos: no, just rif:iri
cw: what about doing it for all?
jos: possible, but maybe not
natural, because we are following xquery, and because they are
... but I still wouldn't be completely against it
axel: predicates makes writing things more complicated
cw: any other opinions?
<MichaelKifer> I agree with Jos.
<ChrisW> Axel +1, Jos -1
cw: straw poll,
<AxelPolleres> Strawpoll: Keep 4.3.5: +1 drop: -1
cw: I will put this in the form of a proposed resolution (jos's proposal) and let people know that we'll be voting on it next week
jos: what about between rif:text and strings?
jos... the issue is from rif:text to string. according to current spec, you lose the language when casting from rif:text to string
scribe: but the other direction is only defined for strings that have language id embedded
<ChrisW> adrian is that you?
<AxelPolleres> casting from string to numbers is also not round-drippable... "0001"
daver: casting from text to string, using only the string part make sense to me. but is there also a 2 argument constructor to create a string, and also an extractor to get the lang from the string
jos: I think we don't have the constructor
axel: I don't agree with the roundtripping argument because (?)..... and also then it would be complicated to get out the string part
<AdrianPa> sorry, dropped out. I'm currently travelling and do not have a stable line
jos: I now agree with dave's idea
that we change the cast in 4.3.4 to take 2 arguments
... ...first literal string and second language tag
cw: I agree that current cast doesn't really make sense
axel: it comes from the
presentation syntax, it would be easy to implement for the
... yes, I agree to change 4.3.4 to 2 argument version
<ChrisW> ACTION: change 4.3.4 to a two arg function (string,lang) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - change
<ChrisW> ACTION: axel to change 4.3.4 to a two arg function (string,lang) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-542 - Change 4.3.4 to a two arg function (string,lang) [on Axel Polleres - due 2008-07-15].
axel: I think we should add a shortcut for rif:text then, in the presentation syntax
jos: that was discussed at length
at f2f10, with no agreement
... also, 4.7.1, axel and I disagree over the name of the extraction function
... it is inconsistent with the rest. I think it shojuld be called lang-from-text
axel: the others come from
xquery, this one comes from sparql
... but I could live with jos's naming
jos: it's all caps in sparql
axel, cw: sparql is not case sensitive
cw: straw poll
<ChrisW> Straw Poll +1 prefer func:lang, -1 prefer func:lang-from-text
<AxelPolleres> strawpoll: +1 lang -1 lang-from-XYZtext
cw: default is leaving it as is
axel: jos and I agreed to put editor's not on things we don't agree on, and get comments from external reviewers
cw: other issues on casting?
jos: in the above DTB section,
inconsistence in names
... which is intended?
axel: can I fix this even though wiki says the document should not be changed
jos: it's just a simple editorial
... the one in the schema is the correct name, right?
mk: grammar changes are also ok, right?
<AxelPolleres> -1 to adding double-negations
cw: any other discjussion on DTB?
axel: I would like all the access phone numbers in the agenda emails
<ChrisW> ACTION: chris to update access numbers in agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-543 - Update access numbers in agenda [on Christopher Welty - due 2008-07-15].
cw: any other business?
sorry, calling back
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/by chris and jos/by chris and jos by next tuesday/ Succeeded: s/by Leora/by Leora by friday/ Succeeded: s/is does/it does/ Found Scribe: StellaMitchell Inferring ScribeNick: StellaMitchell Default Present: Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, LeoraMorgenstern, josb, StellaMitchell, AxelPolleres, Harold, AdrianP, MichaelKifer, AdrianPa Present: Dave_Reynolds ChrisW LeoraMorgenstern josb StellaMitchell AxelPolleres Harold AdrianP MichaelKifer AdrianPa Regrets: Gary Hallmark PaulVincent Sandro Hawke Hassan A�t-Kaci Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2008Jul/0088.html Got date from IRC log name: 08 Jul 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/07/08-rif-minutes.html People with action items: 4.3.4 axel change chris jdebruij2 jos stella[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]