See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 26 June 2008
<scribe> Scribe: Cameron
<scribe> ScribeNick: heycam
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0051.html
ED: This is about trailing
semicolons in the values="" attribute
... and whether you get an additional value if it ends with a
';'
CM: I agree with Julien's assessment that his example should be invalid
DS: Could there be a recovery behaviour here?
<anthony> http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/REC-SMIL2-20051213/animation.html#adef-values
CM: The grammar is defined by SMIL
<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/animate.html#ValuesAttribute
CM: is it by reference?
AG: yes
ED: we could override the definition in SVG
CM: I wonder if there's content out there that uses this semicolon at the end of the list.
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0020.html
ED: in that mail, andrew points
out that the ikivo animator produces content with the
semicolon
... and both ikivo and bitflash accept it
AG: what does opera do?
ED: not sure
http://mcc.id.au/temp/semicolon.svg
CM: Batik does accept the semicolon
(discussion about empty string values, like for animating URLs)
CM: you can validly have <a xlink:href=""/>
DS: if we had an image, and we're animating the xlink:href and the last value was the empty string, that would mean that the last value is that the image goes blank
CM: yeah
DS: i'm curious where else SMIL is being used
CM: maybe we can just force the
use of '#' for same document references in values=""
... but we should test if empty strings work currently in
UAs
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to test empty string values in animations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2074 - Test empty string values in animations [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-03].
ISSUE: Behaviour of animating values="a; b; c;" in existing UAs is at odds with the spec
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2010 - Behaviour of animating values=\"a; b; c;\" in existing UAs is at odds with the spec ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2010/edit .
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0002.html
DS: Chris looked at it a little,
and thought maybe it was id vs xml:id
... but Chris says somewhere we introduced id in two different
places
... I'm going to be talking next month (maybe before) to the
Relax guys, I can ask them about this.
ISSUE: SVG Tiny schema is broken
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2011 - SVG Tiny schema is broken ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2011/edit .
<shepazu> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2009
trackbot, close ISSUE-2011
<trackbot> Sorry, heycam, I don't understand 'trackbot, close ISSUE-2011'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to figure out why the SVG Tiny schema is broken (ISSUE-2009) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2075 - Figure out why the SVG Tiny schema is broken (ISSUE-2009) [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-03].
ED: reply to felix?
DS: i'll investigate it, see if we can fix it, then reply to felix
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
CM: last time we said push it off until we hear from andrew, since bitflash does the double network access already
ED: we don't want to delay spec
edits
... maybe we can contact someone else at bitflash
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to mail some BitFlash guys about ISSUE-2003 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2076 - Mail some BitFlash guys about ISSUE-2003 [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-07-03].
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0048.html
ED: it might be confusing to some
people that percentages are relative to the viewport, and not
the bbox of the element it's used on
... otoh, if you use values like 0.1, then you get 10% of the
object bbox
CM: is it deliberate so that you can use viewport-relative and bbox-relative values in there?
ED: don't know if it's deliberate, but it is confusing
CM: i imagine there might be content out there that uses it
ED: it would be nice to have a
test to see if an implementation uses percentages as
bbox-relative
... not difficult to change it, but wondering if content relies
on it
... first step would be to try implementations
... don't know if it's useful to have the functionality of
being able to have a percentage of the viewport
... and at the same time using objectBoundingBox
coordinates
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2077 - Test implementations for percentage values in clipPath, etc. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-07-03].
ISSUE: Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2013 - Percentages in clipPath/pattern/filter/mask unintuitive ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2013/edit .
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0019.html
ED: Is there a way of telling
where a keyboard event comes from in the uDOM? I don't think
so.
... There's no keyLocation in the tiny KeyboardEvent.
CM: is keyLocation safe in the current DOM3Key spec?
DS: yes
ED: we could add it
DS: it is a subset intended for mobiles, where you only have one keypad
ED: otoh that content might be viewed on different devices
DS: if the content is constrained
to the device (if it doesn't assume it can get the different
locations) then it doesn't matter
... for uDOM in general, it would be better if we were to add
it
... that would change the java bindings
ED: i'd be tempted not to change it in tiny, and in full say that the full DOM3Key interface is required
DS: does that resolve the entire issue?
ED: not really, but part of
it
... you'd be saying there's no way to find out where the is
coming from, and that you have to rely on DOM 3 Events before
being able to decide that
... you could always test if keyLocation is there, and use it
if it is
... the modifier keys are missing as well, same thing
... is there any difference in lowercase a and uppercase a? is
it the same key identifier?
CM: you'd always get U+0041 i
think
... and there's still textEvent yes?
ED: yes
... so you can get the actual typed in string with that
AG: in full we can say to support full DOM3Key
CM: do mobile devices that the udom is targetted to have shift/ctrl keys anyway?
ED: some devices do have shift-like keys
DS: there's IME
ED: mine does have a full(ish)
keyboard, with a shift key
... and you can type upper and lowercase letters
<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/events.html#Events-KeyboardEvent
AG: issue freeze?
CM: you can probably keep a track of shift key state in script if you really needed to
RESOLUTION: We won't add keyLocation and modifier key attributes to the uDOM KeyboardEvent, but we will require the full DOM3Key interface in 1.2 Full
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to reply to Julien to say that we won't add keyLocation etc. to KeyboardEvent in the uDOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2078 - Reply to Julien to say that we won't add keyLocation etc. to KeyboardEvent in the uDOM [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-07-03].
ED: Has publication happened yet?
DS: no
ED: soon?
DS: yes
ED: we should track test case issues
DS: why not in tracker?
CM: there is a product in there for the test suite
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0023.html
ED: This is using spaces in a URI, and the spec requires using commas without spaces
CM: so escaped spaces (%20) aren't allowed
DS: we could say that the
fragment is URL encoded
... if i have a space in my URL now, in a browser, it uses a
%20
... we could say if a space is part of a functional fragment
then it's escaped
CM: i don't know the intricacies
of urls/uris/iris/leiris enough to know
... maybe we can fix the test case to use commas, and raise an
issue for the general problem of spaces in there
ED: i agree with kalle's comments on the test description
DS: yes
ED: so that should be changed
<scribe> ACTION: Anthony to fix linking-frag-20[12] and reply to Kalle [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2079 - Fix linking-frag-20[12] and reply to Kalle [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-07-03].
ISSUE: The restriction on IRI fragments in view specs to disallow spaces may be overly restrictive
<trackbot> Created ISSUE-2014 - The restriction on IRI fragments in view specs to disallow spaces may be overly restrictive ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/issues/2014/edit .
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0147.html
<shepazu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0161.html
DS: shouldn't take more than half an hour to read through
ED: what is it for?
DS: the idea is that there is an <access> element with a key="" attribute that is a character
CM: this is for keyboard shortcuts?
DS: yes
... right now we have the accesskey="" we got from SMIL, but
that is known to be a problem
... you map the values of the <access> element to things
in the DOM with targetid=""
... or you can use targetrole="", which will make the access
key go to the element with that role
... you can have lists in these attributes, which will cause
cycling through when you press the access key multiple
times
... if you say activate="yes", then if the user presses the
key, it will shift the focus to that element and activate it
(e.g. if it's a link it will follow it)
... it'd be a good part of the role stuff we'll have in
svg
... what if you wanted to describe a sequence of things that
weren't in document order? e.g. when you hit F it goes to the
first node, then hitting F goes to the second node, which may
or may not be in document order
ED: seems strange to be document
order, and not order in the attribute
... has to be one key, not several keys? e.g. if you are used
to emacs shortcuts you can't add those in addition to your
regular keys?
... or modifier keys
DS: you could have both P and Q mapped to the same element with multiple <access> elements
ED: can't do multi-key-sequences either, e.g. M followed be E
DS: an interesting example, not sure if it's a powerful use case
ED: encourage you all to send comments
DS: due date is already past, but someone asked for an extension so if we do them by next week it would be great
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/look at requiring/require/ Found Scribe: Cameron Found ScribeNick: heycam WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: AG CM DS Doug_Schepers IPcaller ISSUE P4 P5 ScribeNick anthony ed ed_ heycam joined shepazu svg trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy Regrets: Andrew_Emmons Chris_Lilley Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0162.html Found Date: 26 Jun 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-svg-minutes.html People with action items: anthony cameron doug erik WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]