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no one is scribing
talking about rdf graph / owl axioms vs. interpretation
dbooth calls this two-level
alan: why does what pat says
... may be interesting, but in practice what does it mean?
dbooth: semweb arch can only talk about graphs ("1st step")
jar: why is identity important?
dbooth: without identity, we
descend into a tarpit (esp. w.r.t. IRs)
... an IR can have mass
skw: can you give an example?
alanr: i thought we had consensus
that IRs don't have mass, why speculate otherwise?
... if anything can be true of something, then the thing is vacuous
skw: q: webarch says 200 is for IRs, so question is, when can I use a 200?
dbooth: identity on semweb is entirely sets of assertions
jar: what's broken, what needs to
be fixed? in the normative docs?
... why are you bringing this up?
dbooth: because ir discussions
have been unproductive...
... talking about identity is the way to make progress
jar: so what is an example where
talking about identity helps?
... awwsw was supposed to be about http semantics, not semweb architecture
alanr: no, charter was supposed to be broader
dbooth: denotation of a URI is determined by a particular set of assertions
<skw> I think that RDF Model Theoretic semantics are one set of constraints on an interpretation, however....
discussion of rdf and owl semantics, trying to relate to dbooth's view of 2-level architecture
<skw> ... the normative appeal to the URI specs. also (IMO) induce the constraints that arise from the use of URI as refering names...
<skw> so... that on the semantic web, many URI are not free to be used to denote other things.
jar: how does uri declaration
idea bear on this discussion?
... there cannot be an algorithm to determine meaning
dbooth: what about rdf:type? isn't there an algorithm for determining its denotation?
<dbooth> There *must* be an algorithm for determining the first step in the mapping from a URI to what resource it denotes.
alanr: at first i thought that, in absence of CN, when do a GET you get the IR. (whether you can ever know what something denotes?)
skw: what you end up having
locally is a different resource than what you [accessed]
... this is re the PDF file conundrum
jar: denotation is determined by the interpretation sensu RDF semantics / OWL model theory, not by the graph
dbooth: to find out what rdf:type means, you read the spec - the prose.
<skw> Ahah... first one i found in RDF semantics is: rdf:type rdf:type rdf:Property .
alanr: what are the consequences of looking at the spec?
dbooth: you can think of the
prose as being a set of assertions
... then you interpret the assertions
alanr: next step - I test my understanding using a validator and a reasoner
<skw> 3.3 rdf:type
<skw> rdf:type is an instance of rdf:Property that is used to state that a resource is an instance of a class.
<skw> A triple of the form:
<skw> R rdf:type C
<skw> states that C is an instance of rdfs:Class and R is an instance of C.
<skw> The rdfs:domain of rdf:type is rdfs:Resource. The rdfs:range of rdf:type is rdfs:Class.
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: jar286 Inferring Scribes: jar286 WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: +1.781.643.aaaa, jar, DBooth, Alan_Ruttenberg, skw, +1.617.253.aabb, alanr Present: +1.781.643.aaaa jar DBooth Alan_Ruttenberg skw +1.617.253.aabb alanr WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 24 Jun 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/24-awwsw-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]