24 Jun 2008

See also: IRC log


+1.781.643.aaaa, jar, DBooth, Alan_Ruttenberg, skw, +1.617.253.aabb, alanr



no one is scribing

talking about rdf graph / owl axioms vs. interpretation

dbooth calls this two-level

alan: why does what pat says matter?
... may be interesting, but in practice what does it mean?

dbooth: semweb arch can only talk about graphs ("1st step")

jar: why is identity important?

dbooth: without identity, we descend into a tarpit (esp. w.r.t. IRs)
... an IR can have mass

skw: can you give an example?

alanr: i thought we had consensus that IRs don't have mass, why speculate otherwise?
... if anything can be true of something, then the thing is vacuous

skw: q: webarch says 200 is for IRs, so question is, when can I use a 200?

dbooth: identity on semweb is entirely sets of assertions

jar: what's broken, what needs to be fixed? in the normative docs?
... why are you bringing this up?

dbooth: because ir discussions have been unproductive...
... talking about identity is the way to make progress

jar: so what is an example where talking about identity helps?
... awwsw was supposed to be about http semantics, not semweb architecture

alanr: no, charter was supposed to be broader

dbooth: denotation of a URI is determined by a particular set of assertions

<skw> I think that RDF Model Theoretic semantics are one set of constraints on an interpretation, however....

discussion of rdf and owl semantics, trying to relate to dbooth's view of 2-level architecture

<skw> ... the normative appeal to the URI specs. also (IMO) induce the constraints that arise from the use of URI as refering names...

<skw> so... that on the semantic web, many URI are not free to be used to denote other things.

jar: how does uri declaration idea bear on this discussion?
... there cannot be an algorithm to determine meaning

dbooth: what about rdf:type? isn't there an algorithm for determining its denotation?

<dbooth> There *must* be an algorithm for determining the first step in the mapping from a URI to what resource it denotes.

alanr: at first i thought that, in absence of CN, when do a GET you get the IR. (whether you can ever know what something denotes?)

skw: what you end up having locally is a different resource than what you [accessed]
... this is re the PDF file conundrum

jar: denotation is determined by the interpretation sensu RDF semantics / OWL model theory, not by the graph

dbooth: to find out what rdf:type means, you read the spec - the prose.

<skw> Ahah... first one i found in RDF semantics is: rdf:type rdf:type rdf:Property .

alanr: what are the consequences of looking at the spec?

dbooth: you can think of the prose as being a set of assertions
... then you interpret the assertions

alanr: next step - I test my understanding using a validator and a reasoner

<skw> 3.3 rdf:type

<skw> rdf:type is an instance of rdf:Property that is used to state that a resource is an instance of a class.

<skw> A triple of the form:

<skw> R rdf:type C

<skw> states that C is an instance of rdfs:Class and R is an instance of C.

<skw> The rdfs:domain of rdf:type is rdfs:Resource. The rdfs:range of rdf:type is rdfs:Class.

<skw> http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-rdf-schema-20040210/#ch_type

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.133 (CVS log)
$Date: 2008/06/24 14:06:23 $

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