See also: IRC log
<trackbot> Date: 12 June 2008
<ed> hmm...
<shepazu> hmmm
<shepazu> I didn't
<shepazu> ooops... maybe I didn't send out the correction?
<shepazu> guess so
<scribe> Scribe: anthony
<leonardr> (I am STILL waiting for an operator to get me into the system :(
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Nuremburg_F2F_2008
ED: I got some information from
Alex
... I added some information to me the meeting wiki page
... Alex said he'd find out more info for network, restaurants
etc
<ed> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/svgF2Fnuremburg2008/
ED: I've also opened up the
attendance page
... most of the information has been taken from the SVG Open
travel website
AG: I've generated the new
testsuite
... which includes the minor Erik made
... I omit three tests
... two of them had zero sided reference images
... struct-use-06-t, struct-use-07-t
... and the third test I omitted is
... struct-common-201-t-debug
ED: with the struct-use ones couldn't we generate the reference images for them
AG: So they were but they had
zero sized reference images
... I'm guessing this is still a beta release so we can sort
those out next
ED: I see both still in
draft
... So the next step is for Doug to push the changes out so
they become public
DS: I will try to do that today or tomorrow
ED: I guess we should make it
known that we published an updated version of the test
suite
... might want to make the list of issues that's on the wiki
known
AG: I agree
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/Test_Suite_Overview#23_May_2008
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/View_the_list_of_known_issues
AG: Looks to me some of the require minimal effort to fix
ED: Yes some of them could have
images patches for batik to render or png
... the revision numbers could be a bit tedious
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to publish the SVG test suite, announce its publication and the list of known issues [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2062 - Publish the SVG test suite, announce its publication and the list of known issues [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-19].
DS: We should finalise this and get it out into the public fairly soon
ED: I was just wondering if there
was something left for us to discuss about the mail reply from
last time
... just wondering about results and the rework
AG: So I've started converting
the slides to HTML
... just haven't finished yet
... where should I commit it
DS: Contact me when you're ready and I'll try to have the structure done for CVS
ED: We can expect to have it in CVS by next week
AG: For sure
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0069.html
ED: We should go through
these
... First one is about HKern
... it's a very minor change
... changing the grammar for the u2 attribute
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#hkern_u2_definition_typo
ED: I think most implementations
don't treat it as a number
... it is Category 3 because it may change stuff
AG: I don't have any problems with it
CM: I agree
RESOLUTION: We will move the hkern_u2_definition_typo to proposed status
ED: The next one is changing what
exceptions we throw
... I also found after writing this
... it's kind of strange
... we have parameters that are unsigned long but for negative
numbers they throw exceptions
CM: Seems like an easy thing to
change while we are at it
... We should remove the exception
<ed> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/text.html#InterfaceSVGTextContentElement
ED: For the text content element they all take unsigned long
CM: For the text interface they
take character indexs
... they take unsigned
AG: conclusion
CM: Remove the exception
ED: So what ways is a negative
value converted?
... guess it would depend on the unsigned long
... It's fine with me
AG: Are you going to make that change as part of the errata change?
ED: Sure I can do it
... we should probably change all the text methods as
well
... so in that case we should keep it in draft for now
... so this will be part of ACTION-2010
<ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Group/repository/errata/errata.xml#value_spacing_of_keySpline_syntax
ED: So next one is key spline
syntax
... action is closed
... but open in the errata file
AG: It doesn't have a category either
ED: It's more a
clarification
... I think this is a category 2 because it doesn't impact
conformance
... the conformance is already in SMIL
AG: So I can add the category 2 and close the action item
RESOLUTION: Pending the changes to the value_spacing_of_keySpline_syntax we will move this errata item to proposed status
ED: This was a thread on the group list
CM: This is me pointing out what
Tiny says about script elements
... it's a bit different to what HTML says
... FF and Opera appear to be doing what HTML says
... even for SVG
DS: Is that the desired behavior
CM: I suspect it's that way
because that's how things work in HTML
... legacy reasons
... I don't see any issues for using on or the other
... maybe if you wanted to reuse the same script element
multiple times then you want to choose the SVG way
... I think it's a pretty minor thing
... not really stopping you from doing anything
... the two major desktop browsers do it that way
ED: I would like to do it the
same as HTML
... I would favor us changing it the Tiny spec
... we don't have any test cases on it
... I'd be surprised if people are relying on it
CM: Or if people are relying on it they are probably relying on it working on the HTML way
DS: I'm trying to think of a
reason to do it
... yes we should align
... either SVG or HTML
... there are some issues in which HTML should change, this
isn't one of them
CM: I think I wouldn't be
surprised if there was HTML stuff on it out there that relied
on it
... working that way
DS: I'm fine with it changing
ED: Sounds like we all agree to have the spec changed
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to fix the spec by aligning the script element behavior with HTMLs script element behavior [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2063 - Fix the spec by aligning the script element behavior with HTMLs script element behavior [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-19].
DS: Gives some background of
ARIA
... There was a big discussion of the syntax that would be used
in HTML and SVG for ARIA
... we didn't like it
... but we agreed to use the aria- syntax
CM: From reading things I think that's what I think everyone agreed on
ED: That's what we agreed on
DS: So since that time, on the
HTML list and on the appropriate WAI list
... there has been a lot of debate about it and on the
TAG
... tried to push the name spaces syntax
... but if you recall
... after you agreed to it
... it was implemented in all 4 browsers some of which are SVG
user agents
... this was the 'aria-*' syntax implementation
... So that TAG tried push name spaces syntax
... and there has been push back from WAI
... somehow it wasn't conveyed to WAI that this is what the SVG
WG had agreed on
... I'd like to confirm that we agreed to the "aria-*"
syntax
RESOLUTION: SVG will use the "aria-*" syntax for ARIA and tends to publish a module describing its use with the "role" attribute
ED: I found the minutes from the
last F2F that we resolved to use the role attribute
... couldn't find the ARIA resolution
... I guess this answers all their questions
... were all the questions answered on the coordination
call
<scribe> ACTION: Doug to send an email to WAI and SVG that we agreed on the ARIA resolution [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2064 - Send an email to WAI and SVG that we agreed on the ARIA resolution [on Doug Schepers - due 2008-06-19].
ED: First one is
... ordering of effects with enable-background:new and filter
on the same element
AG: So reading the spec it wasn't entirely clear
ED: I agree for the wording on how to generate the background image is not as clear as it could be
AG: Would be nice to have
examples of the buffer
... at different stages
ED: We all seem to agree on the result of his example
AG: So I had a play with it and what opera is doing is correct
CM: The way it's written it's a bit unclear on what enable-background applies to
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to reword the enable-background property example [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2065 - Reword the enable-background property example [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-19].
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0003.html
http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/filters.html#AccessingBackgroundImage
AG: So it's that bottom bit before the SVG Syntax example (Example enable-background-01) that's a bit confusing
ED: So the next on is
more BackgroundImage/enable-background issues
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008Jun/0007.html
ED: There is nothing really
preventing you from doing that
... Batik seems to do what Robert is expecting
... and Opera seems to be clipping
... I think it's a bug in Opera
... Robert is suggesting to remove half of the sentence
... I don't think that's the best way
... I think it would be better to add some extra text saying
that
... extending the background image past the viewPort
... is possible
AG: Should we make an errata for this? or will this appear in the module?
ED: My plan was for it to appear in the module
<scribe> ACTION: Erik to propose wording that clarifies the use of background image outside of the viewPort bounds [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2066 - Propose wording that clarifies the use of background image outside of the viewPort bounds [on Erik Dahlström - due 2008-06-19].
<scribe> ACTION: anthony to add Eriks proposed wording to the Errata. Link to ACTION-2066 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2067 - Add Eriks proposed wording to the Errata. Link to ACTION-2066 [on Anthony Grasso - due 2008-06-19].
ED: The next on is about Question about SVG List replaceItem
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0043.html
CM: I started to investigate
it
... and then ran into a crash in FF
... [Explains issue]
... The spec doesn't say where the index is
... before or after the removal
ED: This is about the SVG path
seg list
... only effecting the case where you are trying to replace the
item in a list
... in the case we have with replace item on the same
list
... some weird things happen
CM: So this is why the issues doesn't occur in normal DOM core lists
ED: The spec is not clear on
this
... the index doesn't really say if the removal is before or
after
... so it's not clear where the item will end up
CM: Do you think we should test different implementations?
ED: I think Opera and Batik are
doing different things
... it would be nice to have a few test cases for this
... we should ask him for test cases on this
... we can't resolve it unless we know what implementations are
doing
<scribe> ACTION: Cameron to test the SVG List replaceItem behavior of different implementations and report back [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-2068 - Test the SVG List replaceItem behavior of different implementations and report back [on Cameron McCormack - due 2008-06-19].
<ed> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2008May/0033.html
ED: So the next one is
... Resolving IRIs for resource documents in SVG Tiny 1.2
AG: Looks a bit like an optimisation
CM: I think it's a reasonable
thing to bring up
... maybe you can rely on caching to see if there is redirect
still
ED: I'm not sure either
AG: Perhaps this is something we can come back to or discuss over email
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/it's/both/ Succeeded: s/will/will be/ Succeeded: s/aria-/'aria-*'/ Found Scribe: anthony Inferring ScribeNick: anthony Default Present: ed, anthony, Doug_Schepers, +1.408.536.aaaa, [IPcaller], heycam Present: ed anthony Doug_Schepers +1.408.536.aaaa [IPcaller] heycam Regrets: Andrew Emmons Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2008AprJun/0125.html Found Date: 12 Jun 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/12-svg-minutes.html People with action items: anthony cameron doug erik[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]