See also: IRC log
<fantasai> regrets from howcome, annevk, innovimax, dsinger, and bert
daniel: Agenda review
<fantasai> ScribeNick: Ming
peter: module list updated last week; will send it out this week
jason: my note on hypertext link style?
fantasai: which note?
jason: regarding pseudo class
fantasai: then should go into selector module
jason: make sense; though does
affect link style
... ok, agree to cancel my note
... more about link pseudo class; not a huge thing, from a design point of view
daniel: please send the complete list of modules out today, peter.
fantasai: not talked about
whether to do selector 4 module. does not have feedbacks, since
... should this be listed in the charter; think it should be in scope
daniel: selector was the first
thing to work on CSS WG
... make it an extension would be a better course.
fantasai: ok; I can't disagree with this; I haven't heard the implementor's view.
daniel: would like implementor focus on other modules.
fantasai: bert and I am working
on these issues
... would seek implementors' view
daniel: is there a third way than accept or reject, i.e. working on this later
fantasai: don't want to keep working on the draft, would spend energy somewhere else
peter/molly: would have a place to keep the work so far, for next round. don't want losing the work
fantasai: has listed some work on
... is anyone wanting the multiple borders in module 3
david b.: yes
daniel: anyone else, Microsoft, Opera?
arron: can't say for sure; likelt won't need for a while
david b.: not sure what is to be implemented
fantasai: not sure either
daniel: so better to drop it for this round; need more work
<fantasai> dbaron: Mozilla has a multiple borders feature, but I don't think it's what we want here
daniel: all agree; done
<fantasai> RESOLVED: no multiple borders in level 3
fantasai: percentage border
width, issue 26
... any pressing reason to add this?
daniel: is there a use case for this?
fantasai: don't know one
daniel: don't see border width specified this way, rather in pixel; jason?
jason: agree. can't think of a use case, percentage border width is to be used.
<dbaron> I would note that one reason you don't see non-pixel borders is that some implementations (e.g., older version of Gecko) will often make them uneven, which isn't what authors want.
molly: the only place is scalable design; not someone is practicing these days.
david b: see my comments above.
<fantasai> jason: I don't think it will make or break any designs
<fantasai> RESOLVED: no percentage borders
daniel: so we can resolve it by not doing this for now
<fantasai> jason, molly: designers would be very interesting to designers
fantasai: next issue: shadows; looking at the pictures
<fantasai> dbaron: would this feature give you 5% of what designers want from this, or 80% of what designers want?
david b: is this feature to give a substantial feature or just tiny feature
daniel/molly/jason: a substantial feature
jason: more if can do this like
... webfloor effect?
daniel: no, just the shadow effect
david b: make a distinction between box shadow effect vs text shadow effect
molly: need to do both
david: q: whether we want to pull one feature at a time what SVG can do, for next 20 years?
daniel: do we want to do features
depending on external engine, or focus on CSS style
... suggest this question for SVG/CSS WG joint session
molly: if do shadow effect, can't do a half job, as this is a common feature.
<fantasai> molly: if we're doing shadows, we should do inner shadows
molly: in design
daniel: any protocol on coordination with SVG features?
fantasai: doing it as an inner shadows than external shadows
<fantasai> fantasai: I would probably just add an 'inset' keyword to the shadow
daniel: continue working on this box shadow, don't drop it
<fantasai> RESOLVED: continue work on inner shadows
daniel: next, positioning from corners
fantasai: the current approach
might be a bit awkward.
... an alternative approach would require a different syntax.
<fantasai> background-postion: 10px 20px;
fantasai: designer would prefer to do it from bottom right.
<fantasai> background-position: bottom 10px right 20px;
fantasai: my proposal is to use
keyword and distance
... from the edge of the element
daniel/fantasai: more like to hear what author want to say
jason: never really have a case to do it from left or right; could be because I can't do it in the past
fantasai: people really want to do from bottom right
<fantasai> fantasai: question is whether to create a syntax for this, or to wait for calc()
jason: agree; what is the syntax to write it from right to left
<fantasai> background-position: bottom 10px right 20px;
<fantasai> background-position: start 10px center;
fantasai: I am posting some notes to show the syntax
jason: just looking at these syntax, it is hard to understand (by author); maybe easy for computer to understand
peter: Q: do you mean 10 px from righ edge of the box ?
fantasaI: could be right edge from the right edge(?)
david b: calc(?) expression has the percentage in it.
david b: two path of calculation, one for image and one for the other
jason: creating the padding of
what the background is?
... sometime, need to create both background content and background box
daniel: do we have consensus to work on this?
fantasai: inclined to add this; maybe put in the next draft and ask for feedbacks
daniel: agree, and resolved.
fantasai: post my proposal and david b. has some comment. are we ok?
<fantasai> Any issues that received no comment in that message will be marked as resolved
daniel: can current draft be considered as a working draft?
peter: don't see why not
... the current draft is a year old
daniel: this is the third working draft
fantasai: think this module need
a lot of work, before LC
... though no problem publishing it as working draft for comments
david: several issues
<fantasai> dbaron: one about z-index required adding a new paragraph
<fantasai> dbaron: another I proposed no change
<fantasai> dbaron: another I resolved by pulling in diffs from css2.1
daniel: no objection to release it to LC; others?
fantasai: no comments
arron: no objection
molly/jason: no objection
daniel: resolved: release to last call
david b: was in CR and had some comments
david: when should we respond to them? will people get confused?
daniel: color is something a lot of groups depending on, so good to respond
<dbaron> the question was really about when we publish the disposition of comments
<fantasai> Ming: In April I proposed a review process that me, elika and arron put together
<glazou> dbaron: we can have an online document ready but formally not called "DoC"
<fantasai> Ming: to use wiki pages for review comments
<fantasai> Ming: One of the key steps in the process is the peer or approver -- the final review
<fantasai> Ming: Recently Arron and I discussed how a person qualifies to become a peer
<fantasai> Ming: The reviewing is the bulk of the work right now.. it's the bottleneck
<fantasai> Ming: If we're looking at peers we have today, we don't have a lot of active peers
<fantasai> Ming: Maybe David will have time to help more..
<fantasai> Ming: but we lack peer resources
<fantasai> Ming: So I proposed a process for someone with enough creditials to apply for peer status
<fantasai> Ming: My proposal is based on Elika's policy
<fantasai> Ming: I took those one step further, and said that person has to review 50-100 testcases across modules and with sufficient complexity
<fantasai> Ming: to demonstrate competency
<fantasai> Ming: When a person applies for peer position, then person has to continue contributing
<fantasai> Ming: e.g. review 30-50 testcases a month
<fantasai> Daniel: Have you discussed this process with W3C management?
<fantasai> dbaron: In open source projects, the rules are less formal.
<fantasai> dbaron: and becoming a peer is more a recognition of the person's status rather than something you apply for
<fantasai> Ming: Then maybe we need another status, not peer, but something like "Approver"
<fantasai> Ming: Someone who demonstrates ability to make high quality comments on testcases
<fantasai> ... some discussion ...
<fantasai> Peter summarizes: We like the idea of having a list of active reviewers. We want a call to the public for more people to join this list and help review tests
<fantasai> We want members of the public to help review tests.
<fantasai> We want to have a list of "final reviewers", and publish process for becoming a final reviewer
<fantasai> Molly: we can publicize through www-style, our blog, Eric Meyer's group, personal blogs
<fantasai> Elika: I've been waiting for licensing issues to issue a call for help with the test suite
<glazou> fantasai: I can extend the wiki to host comments on the test suite
<fantasai> Elika: There are several ways to help: reviewing testcases, reporting failures, fixing testcases in response to review comments, writing testcases
<fantasai> Peter: We shouldn't hold back on that for issuing a call for reviewers
<fantasai> Elika: Ming and I discussed using the wiki for reviews, should set that up first
daniel: meeting adjourned
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/would like to hear/I haven't heard/ Succeeded: s/daniel/fantasai/ Succeeded: s/position/distance/ Succeeded: s/daniel/peter/ Succeeded: s/daniel/david/ Found ScribeNick: Ming Inferring Scribes: Ming WARNING: No "Present: ... " found! Possibly Present: Arron Bert David_Baron Elika Hixie Microsoft Ming Molly_Holzschlag ScribeNick anne background-position background-postion bjoern daniel david dbaron fantasaI glazou hsivonen jason jason_cranfordtea jdaggett krijnh molly myakura peter plinss plinss_ trackbot You can indicate people for the Present list like this: <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary <dbooth> Present+ amy WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 04 Jun 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/04-css-minutes.html People with action items: WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]