See also: IRC log
<AllanJ> Title: UAWG telecon
<AllanJ> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0099.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0106.html
<oedipus> www.freedomchat.org
<AllanJ> http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/iamc.html
JA: HTML group wants to see "MUST" in the access module.
GR: HTML group says over-riding key bindings are a MUST.
<KFord> What's the syntax to put myself on the queue?
JB: SHOULD, SHALL and MUST are policy/procedure words. Judy wants to look at this more carefully.
JA: The items in question are P2
which would be "should" by WCAG1.
... we haven't used that before. Makes it difficult for the
developer to know what to code to.
JR: Only use MUST when there is no reasonible exception to the rule.
GR: Correct, they think there is no exception.
<oedipus> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2119.txt
KF: I'm not ok with MUST. I can't make this an absolute.
GR: XHTML2 WG is not negotiating on this.
??: Does this draft now go to public comment? Can we provide feedback to that?
JB: THey are enforcing a higher level of accessibility than UAAG?
<AllanJ> propose Access module wording - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0100.html
It is their spec.
JA: We reviewed their spec and
make our comments and cross-referenced the dependencies to our
UAAG 1.0 checkpoints.
... We re-wrote it based on our understanding of the language.
They came back to a higher priority.
JB: It would be a good
cross-group courtesy to work this out before it goes to
LC.
... it could be useful to invite cross-group discussion so that
our priorities can be synchonized. It could be difficult to
coordinate time-wise.
GR: the main editor is not
available for meeting today. They like the idea of "persistent
over session"
... we need to define what we mean by session. It is in the WAI
glossary, which is out-dated.
JA: Can we just put a period after "persist"?
<AllanJ> old: If no key attribute is specified, the user agent SHOULD assign a key and
<AllanJ> alert the user to the key mapping and the resultant user agent assigned
<AllanJ> key SHOULD persist across sessions.
GR: That wording leaves it open for sites that want to give user session options.
<AllanJ> new: If no key attribute is specified, the user agent SHOULD assign a key and
<AllanJ> alert the user to the key mapping and the resultant user agent assigned
<AllanJ> key SHOULD persist.
KF: In a public environment, you may not want the key to persist.
JA: Sometime when we go to write techniques, we can give examples of writing it to a cookie, or other techniques.
KF: If you have done something for accessibility, it should be implemented. It is open to enough interpretation that the user agent development community should have the flexibility they need.
vote: KF: yes. GR: yes. JR: yes. JB: yes. JA:yes. JS:yes
<scribe> ACTION: GR will take back to the HTML group. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action01]
JB: Wants link to mailing archive for this discussion from the HTML group.
Jim is away next week. Judy recommends skipping one week and planning a meeting for the following week.
JA: Want to discuss now because there deadlines coming up.
JB: Tech Plenary and TPAC in France around October 29. Good opportunity for meeting.
JA: Another option is ATAG is meeting in Redmond, WA in July 25, 26. Tuesday it was asked: Could we have a UAAG meeting at same time?
KF: if we have the meeting scheduled in France, do we need another?
JB: It can be an advantage. With
it scheduled for July, it could be good timing. We don't want
to overwhelm hosting.
... Another possibility would be another host in the same town.
Or meet somewhere else before October.
KF: Could get an official answer by ...
JA: When KF finds out, he will send an email.
JB: Who else is able to scribe?
Jan, Jim, Gregory (once a month), Jeanne
Kelly is willing, but doesn't know how to do it.
JB: There are scribing tips we can distribute. We can set up a scribe rotation.
GR: Has a scribe
<scribe> ACTION: GR send the scribing tips to Jeanne who will combine it with some other instructions. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action02]
<AllanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0072.html
JA: We need to work on these topics (printing, keyboard access, UA and Video) and work them out on the email list.
<AllanJ> SC: 3.11.X Print Scale: If a print from viewport feature is provided,
<AllanJ> the user has the option of printing using the viewport's scale settings
<AllanJ> such that the user agent should attempt to *passively reflow* the
<AllanJ> content into the horizontal dimensions of paper. If passive reflow is
<AllanJ> not possible, more than one sheet of paper will be required horizontally.
JA: JR proposed removing "pieces
of paper".
... we need a new definition of "passively reflowing"
KF: "print" is too restrictive, it doesn't include embossing.
JB: propose "printing and embossing" to keep it from getting too obscure.
JR: Does embossing horizontally cross two pages?
GR: "Paged media" is too cryptic. Most user agents don't print directly to an embosser, they use another AT software to do the embossing.
JB: Does it make sense to say "printing" and define it elsewhere? Or the first time it is used also include embossing?
KF: When you send to an embosser,
the embosser software does the reflow. The user agent doesn't
have anything to do with it.
... Leave it as is and include a note that some printing from
user agent may include providng information to other
technologies for production in alternative media."
GR: if you print something and it is too big for the page, it still needs to go somewhere and not be lost.
JA: When I print from my browser, some text is lost off the right of the page.
<AllanJ> jeanne: also an authoring problem, if css used properly it will reflow, if not printing breaks
JA: Still need to define passive reflow. Any ideas on a definition?
action JR will draft a definition
scribe: of passive reflow
<scribe> ACTION: JR will draft a definition of "passive reflow" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action03]
JR: Horizontal flow, do we also need to consider vertical flow to accommodate the direction of the language flow.
<scribe> ACTION: GR will re-examine CSS 2.1 on flow. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: GR will post information on the Test Suite. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/05/15-ua-minutes.html#action05]
<AllanJ> -q
JA: CSS has language tags for left and right, but I have never seen anything for vertical.
JB: I18l can fill us in on any requirements for print direction.
JR: There is language that is appropriate.
JA: What's the success criteria?
<AllanJ> +1 level 1
GR: PR 1. Many examples of people who need it.
KF: we need to think about the process of assigning priorities rather than throwing out use cases.
JA: table this to two weeks.
<scribe> scribe: jeanne
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