See also: IRC log
<Bert> trackbot-ng, start telcon
<trackbot-ng> Date: 14 May 2008
<scribe> ScribeNick: fantasai
<dbaron> I've read a bunch of previous drafts of the charter; not sure if they include the current one.
you said the *exact* same thing last time!
<dsinger> I did read the charter a little while back, I may not be up to date, tho
Jason: My team had a meeting and talked about it. We think we should consider saying a bit more about outreach
Peter: Still waiting on Opera for
... No comments on module priority on www-style
fantasai: I didn't see Selectors 4 on the list anywhere
Peter: So only things on agenda this week are Backgrounds and Borders
fantasai summarizes issues in "needs discussion" list
dbaron: opposed to changing background-origin to background-box
<dbaron> hyatt: I like background-origin -- I think it's descriptive.
peter: for positioning from other
corners, I can see that calc() can do it.. I can also see the
utility in using start/end
... maybe add start/end keywords to calc?
fantasai doesn't think that makes much sense
fantasai: one proposal for syntax was background-position: bottom 10px right 25px;
peter: for percentage border widths, I have a vague memory that adding more percentages to width calculations can create circular dependencies.. but maybe I'm wrong
hyatt?: I don't think you get a circular dependency if you add the same rules we have other places, relative to the width of the block and defaulting to something else if you can't resolve the percentage
dbaron: We already have the same problems with percentage margins. I'm concerned about tables.
hyatt: you could say it doesn't apply
fantasai: can default to 'medium'
hyatt: is there a compelling use case for this?
fantasai: not really
... it's there for margin and padding
... figured we'd ask WG if anyone really wants to implement it
Bert: borders don't always look like borders
hyatt: if there's no compelling
use case, then leave it to another level
... it's just another thing to hold back the module
Bert: I'd like to add it and mark it at risk
fantasai: I don't want to define what happens in tables, that's extra work and not easy
<dbaron> I said "I think it is too."
peter: should record idea somewhere
<dbaron> I'm getting a lot of echo from somebody else's phone.
fantasai: We can add a note about
the problems and why we're planning to drop it in the next
... then drop it in the next round
<dbaron> (regarding percentage border-radius being implemented in Gecko)
peter: I think percentage border radii were implemented in Gecko
fantasai: Gecko avoids the confusion of what percentages are relative to by only allowing one radius: corners are always circular
hyatt: I think percentage border radii and percentage border widths go together
fantasai: I think it sounds like they go together when you say it, but not when you look at it
peter: I think the use case was for having rounded ends
fantasai: you can get that if you set large radii, say 2em on a navigation button. They get reduced until they don't intersect, so you'd get rounded ends that way
peter: Everyone please review the list of issue changes here, we will discuss next week as needed
<dbaron> hyatt, since you're here, I'd like to bring http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0145.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008May/0147.html to your attention (Feel free to respond on the list)
peter: update on logo contest
jason: for the prizes we have
generous donations from HP and Adobe for a first-prize
... we could use more, anything like T-shirts etc
<dsinger> I have not yet got response from Apple folk
jason: right now only have enough
for first place
... end of update
<hyatt> dbaron: Issue 3: Should the z-index property apply to elements with opacity?
<hyatt> dbaron: we have a bug filed against webkit on that
<glazou> peter, can you stay here a minute after the end of the call please ?
fantasai: what is the plan for module list in charter?
peter: wait for Opera.. if we don't hear from Opera then we'll just go ahead with what we have
<hyatt> dbaron: i wasn't sure that treating opacity as having a z-index of 0 was good enough
<hyatt> dbaron: i kind of felt like a nonpositioned element with opacity should paint behind positioned elements with a z-index of 0
fantasai: for things that will shift from implementor feedback (like CSS Namespaces), how are you going to do that?
<dbaron> hyatt, but there's also no alternative layer that's appropriate, since the background and the text of boxes have to be together...
peter: editorial change by me
<hyatt> dbaron: i think i'm suggesting amending (8) in http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/zindex.html
<hyatt> or adding something between (7) and (7)
<hyatt> (7) and (8)
<dbaron> hyatt, CSS 2.1 doesn't have 'opacity'
RRSAgent: make logs public
RRSAgent: make minutes
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