See also: IRC log
<scribe> Agenda: Chair: Jim Allan
<AllanJ> Scribe: Jan
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Look up accessible IRC [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-ua-minutes.html#action01]
JA: JA, KF, and JR discussed some language
<KFord> Proposed scope change to charter.
<KFord> 6 (NEW). Promote and support the development of user agent best practices and implementation guides for W3C technologies. Where appropriate, the resulting documents may be linked to by the UAWG or hosted by the Working Group as W3C Notes.
JA: Judy seemed to like it
... Any other issues?
KF: No prob with text but wanted
to discuss ...
... Wonder if Aaron wanted us to do their doc
JR: I think he must know we couldn't...so he must mean we could host
GR: AL really pushing ahead on
... So he's trying to get ARIA finished up
JA: I don't see that as part of the UAAG guidelines... they are more like techniques
<AllanJ> Jan: right, UAWG can provide space, or publish information as a NOTE
JR: So that's why I suggest it be a UAWG note
GR: Maybe we could follow a DHTML
... Taking place through xtech but doc is at dev.aol.com
GR: Becky Gibson and DOJO are
... Talk about keybindings etc.
Dean Hudson called in
DH: Work in voice over tech group in OS10, QA engineer, primarily responsible for vo quality on Mac platform...
JA: Glad to have you
KF: From Microsoft, work on IE team around accessibility
GR: Member of WAI-PF, HTML5, XHTML, Xfroms, vice chair for open accessibility WG
JR: Introduces self
JA: Web master at Texas school
for blind and working with WAI since inception.
... I have an end user perspective
... Back to charter....
DH: I have looked a little bit
JA: We are jsut discussing new
... Any other comments?
... OK approved with no objections.
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Update charter and send to Judy [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-ua-minutes.html#action02]
JA: But all principal people not here
JA: In Agenda I included 4
... But GR is initiator of this
GR: XHTML2 working group is
trying to push ahead a ACCESS module...defines standard way to
access objects from keyboards
... I raised issue of ACTIVATE being boolean with no being default...
... But problem that more than one action can be associated with an object
... I proposed an "inspect" safety-type state that allows inspection of what focus will cause.
... Through discussion this week it's become clear that this involves UA interaction
... With ACTIVATE being boolean, with default no...ok for one action
... But what if some actions are activate=false and some true
... Some ATs can do inspect but what about people not using AT.
DH: What do you mean by activate
GR: Activate is like accesskey
JR: What about focus/activate split
<AllanJ> XHTML access module = http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/WD-xhtml-access-20080418/
GR: Activate lets their be focus
... But mouse/pointer user is left out...
JA: THought activate was on a mouse click
<AllanJ> JR: example - OK button, can tab to get focus, with mouse can only activate
<AllanJ> GR: access module is specific to access key, and the author can choose whether the key press results in focus or action
GR: So as long as fixing it for
keyboard....want to fix mouse as well
... Access can be defined for any target
... But we are dealing with potentially multiple events
... Since user agent has control over DOM, maybe user agent has to step in to show the handlers and offer.
DH: But user may not know which handler to choose
JA: We currently have checkpoint,
... And user has to be able to fire all actions with keyboard
... And so you're saying this should be different...with an inspect?
GR: Either have to do it in Access module or XML events2
JR: What's the user experience
<AllanJ> JR: practical user experience. with a pointer - mouse down, mouse over, the user doesn't know what will happen.
<AllanJ> JR: what's the purpose;
<AllanJ> GR: to defang the on-focus firing.
JR: I understand ensuring focus
... What do you mean by inspect?
GR: If multiple actions fire user may want to do some but not all
KF: So an example...on_mouse_down
to activate link
... THen I have mouse_over
GR: Say you have extension where mouseover word gives translation and mousedown option to change language
JR: So you just know there is mousedown and mouseover but no meaning till code fires?
<AllanJ> the UA does not know what will happen.
GR: I won't see this using "read all"
DH: Maybve should be in ACCESS
... Access module could send message to AT
... Another keypress could say press this to get menu etc
JA: What you say is true but if
some extension to user agent then UA should know what is going
on, but user's jscript will be blackhole
... UA doesn't jknow what will be happening
... Other issue is user should not have to self-discover a la Myst...UA should tell you when you get there
GR: This is why I always have
verboisty on high - let's me discover more
... COuld be sound, alert, slashing screen etc.
GR: I think there should be way
in Access module to get cascade
... Because even though accesskey is defined as one key from keyboard ...it might not be avaialble on a particular keyboard...going to have problems
... Access module says the keystrokes are only suggestions of UA...
JA: Just thinking about more
studff in our guidelines....
... Then also 9.6
GR: So at very least they need to put pointers in to UAAG
JA: How should we work to liaison
GR: I really appreciared your
message on the board
... Other thing we need to make sure is addressed...in absence of defined key, user agent SHOULD define a key
... User agent should display bindings....
<AllanJ> UAAG 1.0 11.3 allow the user to override any binding that is part of the user agent default input configuration
DH: And that would be in access module?
GR: So in there already is that the user agent should define a key
JA: UAAG is at the point where
whatever author says fine, but allow reconfiguration
... We also have a P3, no automatic form submission
GR: THey want this to be abstract as possible but we do want to point out diff between mouse user and keyboard users experience
JA: When hit access key on top of page, something could happen on botom of page
DH: Interesting...mouse users
experience this...go to web site, don't know loud music will
... Lots of mouse users do sort of click around all over
GR: Mouse user is free
... Keyboard user is not, always restricted....
JA: OK, we have 3 mins
... We will be picking up keyboard conversation again...
... So for next week...
<scribe> ACTION: JA to Summary of the ACCESS stuff - mapping relevant checkpoints in UAAG1 and UAAG2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-ua-minutes.html#action03]
JA: Because I think we cover a
lot ofg this
... Then we'll try and get consensus and senfd over to XHTML
GR: Could be UAAG2 verbiage with UAAG1 mappings for normative power
JA: OK, well Dean great you could
... OK see you all next week
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Jan Inferring ScribeNick: Jan Default Present: AllanJ, Gregory_Rosmaita, Jan, KFord, DeanHudson Present: AllanJ Gregory_Rosmaita Jan KFord DeanHudson Regrets: Alan Cantor Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2008AprJun/0056.html Got date from IRC log name: 24 Apr 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/04/24-ua-minutes.html People with action items: ja jr WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]