<pfps> are you providing a memorial for Weizenbaum, bijan?

<bijan> Me?

<bijan> No.

<bijan> I didn't realize he'd died

<bijan> Sad

<pfps> yes, sad - there was a surprising amount of news chatter on his death

Alan: Agenda suggestions?

<alanr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0181.html

Elisa: could exploit source of existing OWL QR guide
... unfortunately it is a Word doc not HTML

<bijan> It's not hard

<bijan> Doubtful :)

<bijan> http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/%7Ebparsia/2007/comp60370/webappsandhtmlauth.pdf

Alan: some issues about printing

<bijan> That was the result of cssing

<dlm> just joined sorry

Elisa: not sure if it will be possible to do anything before F2F

<alanr> hi deb

Alan: not time critical; better to review existing docs

<bijan> We've committed to its existence? I mean, we having brought it ot the wg yet...

Alan: requirement for separate overview? if so what? could it be included in existing docs?

Deb: most used parts are: sec 2 QR; short examples and links; guide for readers.
... species stuff not needed.

Alan: Links and one liners covered by QR

Deb: on line version could have links

<bijan> Structural spec now will have constructer specific examples

<bijan> E.g., http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax#Example

Alan: examples? another set might be redundant. QR examples could link straight into syntax and primer. Not sure if more (redundant) examples needed.

Deb: Likes simple/redundant examples.

Alan: See how much of short examples can be fitted into QR and link to primer for the rest then see where we are up to?

Deb: QR least contentious and covers much of what I care about

Alan: Open up discussion
... believes most of overview functionality can be covered in QR; will be short; have commitment to effort; can see where we stand when it is done.

<Zakim> alanr, you wanted to discuss accessibility

<pfps> +1 to bijan

Bijan: disagrees; doesn't hear consensus

Alan: What is wrong with 1/2 page index?

Bijan: sceptical about ability to realise this.

<bijan> I'd have to see it, right?

Ian: aren't we agreeing to try and produce a suitable QR?

Peter: thinks Alan is saying more

Alan: No -- no commitment yet to how it will be published

<bijan> Then what do we need to announce? Do we just proceed by working.

Peter: in that case I am OK with it
... i.e., with having someone producing a doc and seeing where it would fit.

Bijan: I'm OK with this too.

Alan: Primer news?

<alanr> ok by me

<alanr> ian?

Bijan: Kendal Clarke offered to do some proof reading/editing

<alanr> Can Kendall joint WG for a short bit, to make it official?

OK by me too

Bijan: feedback on examples would be useful
... still some gaps (how to read, ...)

Baojie: who will be reader of primer

Bijan: end users

Baojie: in that case some sections may be too dense. e.g. ...

Bijan: Section 2?

Baojie: differences with DB

<alanr> +1 to making it clearer. A line at the beginning of 2 saying these are aimed at particular experts

Bijan: aimed at experts in relevant areas (e.g. RDF); should be made clearer

Baojie: Section 3 too dense for users unfamiliar with OWL; e.g., what is an individual, property etc. This was covered in guide.

Alan: which section of guide?

Baojie: 3.1 and 3.2

Bijan: move some discussions to appendices?

<alanr> where exactly, ji?

Alan: suggest sections that it isn't so important to read

<alanr> good point

This is useful, but do we need teleconf time for it?

<alanr> up to bijan, peter

<pfps> no - child is correct there

<Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask about linking wiki to feedback and to ask whether we should solicit ideas for examples from list

And I don't want to scribe it :-)

Alan: send note to WG asking for examples?
... feedback from wiki to ack reviewers?

Bijan: will be an ack section in doc

Alan: might give encouragement

Bijan: how to do it in the wiki?

<alanr> ACTION: alan to add feedback to wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/17-owl-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-111 - Add feedback to wiki page [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-03-24].

Deb: how to add comments?

Bijan: use review template in wiki

<bijan> See: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/XML_Serialization

<alanr> hi evan

Bijan & Deb: discussion on examples

<alanr> bye, elisa

<alanr> i had no plan to send out a note re: primer, atm

<pfps> olive oil is cultural independent?

Deb: culturally independent example?

<alanr> no cheese in japan?

<pfps> cheese may offend Ian :-)

Depends on the cheese :-)

<pfps> vegan cheese?

<alanr> +1 to atoms

vegetarian cheese

<alanr> or weather

Bijan: scientific example (atoms etc)

<pfps> vegetarian cheese? is that possible?

Alan: weather?

<pfps> weather ends up with probabilities very soon

<alanr> traffic law

<pfps> too controversial :-)

<alanr> lol

<baojie> weather also has temporal favor: "it is sunny" depends on time

<alanr> http://www.thesoydailyclub.com/Groceries/CheeseAisle.cfm

<pfps> Cheese is a food made from the milk of cows, goats, sheep and other mammals, by coagulating the milk. - Wikipedia

Ian: I like science stuff; *any* kind of food is surely culturally dependent.

Alan: reference

<bijan> Need examples for: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Syntax as well

Alan: still on track when you have time?

Evan: any place in wiki to put it?

<bijan> Evan, feel free to reuse: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Structural_Reference_Experiment

Alan: put it in line with your name in a comment

<pfps> we don't have good versioning in the Wiki, unfortunately

<bijan> I'm finished iwth it

<alanr> view source

<pfps> If Evan is making speculative changes, then other changes will have to be deferred.

Evan: multiple syntaxes?

Bijan: don't bother; can retro-fit.

Alan: schedule?

Evan: Monday 24th?

Alan: so soon?

Evan: this is only for review + thoughts of what needs to be done.

<alanr> ACTION: Evan to review syntax document as reference - what is needed? [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/17-owl-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-112 - Review syntax document as reference - what is needed? [on Evan Wallace - due 2008-03-24].

Alan: adjourn?

<alanr> adjourned

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