<shawn-IAHouston> scribenick: Jack2

Regrets ayne Dick, Andrew Arch, Henny Swan, Doyle Saylor

<scribe> Meeting: EOWG

<scribe> Chair: Shawn Henry

Ti[oc: From NWBP to WCAG 2.0

Discussing [LINK_TARGET_ID] -

From MWBP to WCAG 2.0

Add information about screen readers

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, to LINK_TARGET_ID add text about screen reader users and jumping through links, links list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action01]

Yaliz: don't include links

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, to find a way of differentiating "Refer to" links or removing them in final document. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action02]

Shawn: include links within page to make it easy for editing, but include a note to indicate that they are only for Alan while editing and not going to be in the final document so it is clear when people are reviewing

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, to check for commas after SC numbers. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action03]

Discussing [MEASURES] Do not use pixel measures and do not use absolute units in markup language attribute values and style sheet property values

Shawn be more explicit. Something like some browsers provide functionality to resize text, but only work if text is defined in relative units (or not defined at all and left default)

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under MEASURES add older browsers, screen magnifiers. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action04]

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: alan, to MEASURES, add something like: some browsers provide functionality to resize text, but only work if text is defined in relative units (or not defined at all and left default)/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action05]

<shawn-IAHouston> MINUTE FORMAT: http://www.w3.org/2008/MM/DD-eo-minutes

<shawn-IAHouston> MINUTE FORMAT: today's http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes

Discussing [MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES] Keep the number of keystrokes to a minimum

Shawn: Focus this on people with disabilities instead of best practices

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES remove first sentence ("While mobile devices") move to Experiences document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action06]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES remove sentence about "...WCAG 1.0 checkpoint" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action07]

Lisa: Fewer keystrokes might reduce the learning curve

Alan: Since there are other best practices in Mobile Web, it is not clear here

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES add cognitive disabilities. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action08]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under AVOID_FREE_TEXT, PROVIDE_DEFAULTS, DEFAULT_INPUT_MODE, include copy of text from MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES, and perhaps cross-refs. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action09]

Shawn: May be worthwhile to repeat under the other two best practices rather than link

Discussing [NAVBAR] Provide only minimal navigation at the top of the page

Yeliz: add screen reader users?

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: alan to [NAVBAR] "users of screen magnifiers and others" change to "users of screen magnifiers and screen readers" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action10]

Yeliz: add information about screen readers to the first sentence

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVBAR, add screen readers to sentence with magnifiers (but not visual problem). [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action11]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVBAR, add screen readers to second sentence. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action12]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVBAR, in second sentence problem is not scrolling but tabbing through links. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action13]

Yeliz: may benefit people with cognitive disabililities because there are less links to follow

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVBAR, say that users with cognitive disabilities would be less confused if there's less nav at the top of the page. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action14]

Discussing [NAVIGATION] Provide consistent navigation mechanisms

Shawn: Put in a summary here and then add a link

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVIGATION, copy WCAG specific benefits as a summary, and link for further information. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action15]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NAVIGATION, add link to WCAG glossary for "same relative order" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action16]

Discussing [NO_FRAMES] Do not use frames

Is it correct to say they are accessibility issues if frames are correctly designed and label?

Sylvie: are there browsers that do not handle frames well?

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NO_FRAMES, delete the benefit, as they can be more accessible. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action17]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NO_FRAMES, add need to "no to need identify them" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action18]

Liam: Not using frames does help users with disabilities, but is more of usability thing instead of an accessibility thing

Sylvie: when many frames are used, it can make it more difficult

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NO_FRAMES, change to "easier for some people to use" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action19]

Discussing [NON-TEXT_ALTERNATIVES] Provide a text equivalent for every non-text element

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NON-TEXT_ALTERNATIVES, "Designing content to be useful when rendered text-only..." move to start and change to "non-text content is not available to some people with disabilities" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action20]

Unless Non-text alternatives are provided, content is not available for some people.

<achuter> http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20071211/H45.html

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under NON-TEXT_ALTERNATIVES, remove the longdesc tip. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action21]

Discussing [OBJECTS_OR_SCRIPT] Do not rely on embedded objects or script

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: Shawn consider the philosophy of saying if you don't do this, then you don't have to worry about SC X.X.X> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action22]

Some things done with java script can help people with disabilities. Most things done with java script don't help people with disabilities

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under OBJECTS_OR_SCRIPT add that this "Allows users the possibility to not use script or embeded objects." [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action23]

Discussing [PAGE_SIZE_USABLE] Divide pages into usable but limited size portions

Yeliz: suggests that screen readers could also benefit from this

Question about what phrase means when it talks about 'smaller pages'.

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under PAGE_SIZE_USABLE add that it can help screen reader users. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action24]

Discussing [PAGE_TITLE] Provide a short but descriptive page title

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under PAGE_SIZE_USABLE check that there is really no WCAG 2.0 SC for this, corresponding to WCAG 1.0 12.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action25]

Liam: benefits screen readers in that it confirms that they got to the right place

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under PAGE_TITLE, for screen reader users too. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action26]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under PAGE_TITLE, clarify that "audio when navigating between Web pages" refers to voice recognition. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action27]

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, remove links to experiences document, and copy information when other document is complete. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action28]

Feel that the tip is OK

Discussing [POP_UPS] Do not cause pop-ups or other windows to appear and do not change the current window without informing the user

William: add information about cognitive disabilities

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under POPUPS, add cognitive disability [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action29]

Discussing [PROVIDE_DEFAULTS] Provide pre-selected default values where possible

<achuter> ACTION: Alan, under PROVIDE_DEFAULTS, include (copy) benefits from MINIMIZE_KEYSTROKES. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action30]

Yeliz: Repeat benefits from minimize keystrokes

Liam: the document should focus on desktop users with disabilities

Clarifying the purpose of the document.

Yeliz: Important to include benefits

Alan: Talks about the mapping information in the documents for going from BP to WCAG or from WCAG to BP

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: all, look at the mobile-accessibility documents overall, esp hoe the different sections of the technical document fit together. start with http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action31]

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: alan, update the requirements to define the prupose, etc of hte different documents & sections of the technical document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action32]

rrs agent, draft minutes

<shawn-IAHouston> shawn: organize discussion of goals/audience/purpose for each doc & subsection(page)

<shawn-IAHouston> ACTION: shawn, organize discussion of goals/audience/purpose for each doc & subsection(page) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html#action33]

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133  of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/screen reader users./screen reader users and jumping through links, links list./
Succeeded: s/Something like some browsers . . ./Something like some browsers provide functionality to resize text, but only work if text is defined in relative units (or not defined at all and left default)/
Found ScribeNick: Jack2
Inferring Scribes: Jack2
Default Present: Jack, Shawn, Loughborough, achuter, yeliz, Lisa_Pappas, +44.27.aaaa, sylvie, +0137383aabb, Liam
Present: Jack Shawn William Alan Yeliz Sylvie Lisa_(first_part) Liam_(second_part)
Regrets: Wayne_Dick Andrew_Arch Henny_Swan Doyle_Saylor
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/#meetings
Got date from IRC log name: 14 Mar 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/03/14-eo-minutes.html
People with action items: add alan all audio between change clarify content designing devices first link links minimize_keystrokes mobile move navbar navigating navigation need no_frames non-text_alternatives page_title pages readers refers remove screen sentence shawn that under web when while

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
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