See also: IRC log
<inserted> Scribe: dbooth
<inserted> ScribeNick: dbooth
jar: We discussed the progress of
AWWSW at the last TAG meeting.
... Rules really resonated and helped the TAG members. "I was worried about this effort. Now I'm not."
jar: a "potential rep" has the
opportunity to be a rep of a resource.
... if an http response has not actually been issued by a resource yet.
... people have complained about the use of rep. So in an ont we need something that might be a rep.
timbl: i'm not too worried about
having a separate name for something that could be a rep.
... 2 questions: rel btwn an http response and a rep. does it carry anything else?
... the other q: http spec says it's a rep if the status 200 says its a rep.
<alanr> jonathan calls this a "200 responder"
<alanr> but it is not heard as such in common discussion - there is more to it
jar: 2616 says a rep is an entity
that goes with a 200 response, but the entity is not the whole
response. it ditches the headers.
... also I was trying to capture the discussion a few weeks ago, someone was worried that restricting to http responses was too limited. wanted a more general description of what a rep might be.
... let's table this and move on to rules.
<inserted> Scribe: jar
discussion of jar's table & what's a reprsentation tabled until a later meeting
the rules are a combination of 3 ontologies - uris, http, web architecture
<alanr> uri:hasProperRacine doesn't work with open world, if the intention is that there is *no* racine for some URIs
<timbl> ######################## AWWW #########################
<alanr> or do these rules assume closed world?
Meant to delete definition of 'resource'
<Stuart> How does awww:Resource differ from rdfs:Resource and/or owl:Thing?
<timbl> rdf:label "InformationResource" should be rdf:label "information resource"
hasRacine, hasProperRacine explained
alanr: are you assuming closed world reasoning?
timbl: the domain statement isn't as constraining as it could be.
dbooth: the correct domain restriction would reflect that the URI on the left of hasProperRacine has a #
alanr: you need a cardinality restriction in order to say what you mean.
timbl: but the logic doesn't capture the entire semantics
<dbooth> dbooth: Right, the domain and range are not as restrictive as they theoretically could be.
<timbl> it never can, so why bother trying to be so experssing in the RDFS.
<alanr> hasProperRacine subProperty hasRacine
alanr: hasProperRacine is a subproperty of hasRacine
<alanr> note for future: Need xsd:URINoFragment
dbooth: hasURI is the inverse of denotes. similar to log:uri
<timbl> Style: "hasURI" is messy, preefr "URI".
<alanr> q: is log:uri inferred by n3?
dbooth: hasDirectGetReply --
grounds this out
... hasGetReply allows for forwarding
alanr: if n3 deduces log:uri relationships then we can just use a type [scribe is confused]
timbl: issues about what has to be asserted or inferred all has to do with your test harness
<alanr> the thing that makes sense is to say, the system can not infer x, given y
timbl: request to separate out the two kinds of material in these files
<timbl> Theer is N3 and cwm
alanr: if log:uri has been inferred then there should be no need to assert hasURI
<timbl> N3 allows you to write these rules.
<timbl> Cwm has certian built-ins
<timbl> as well as an understaning of n3
alanr: what is the range of a location? looks like it's a URI
dbooth: it's the location: header value (string)
alanr: can we change the name, for clarity? a string is not a location
timbl: can we use a separate namespace for headers, mapped automatically from header names to ontology URIs?
<dbooth> timbl: I suggest a separate namespace for htttp headers -- hh or httph.
alanr: can I suggest something that strips the "has"?...
timbl: lots of reasons why no "has" is good
alanr: it's known that many people are confused by ambiguity of leaving out the "has"
dbooth: will do both
stuart: no, pick one and stick with it.
<timbl> label "direct reply"
<dbooth> alan: please add rdf:labels to these
<alanr> rdfs:label the other one
alanr: there's no language, wouldn't it make more sense for [...] to be strings?
timbl: mapping things to strings
is a whole lot simpler, for testing purposes
... you get a string out of the protocol, then coerce it to a string-that-is-a-URI
<alanr> hasContentType: text/plain@en is not permissible
timbl: xsd:anyURI is awkward and it's not clear it adds anything
alanr: i was asking about
has-content-type , which is marked as an rdfs:Literal,
... this would permit things marked with language designators
... if we just say it's a string, we rule out nonsensical cases such as a content-type that's in a language
timbl: timbl has an action item to align tabulator's ontology with this one
alanr: tabulator should use its own namespace
timbl: no, tabulator is trying to be faithful to http
<dbooth> dbooth: if these rules are going to correctly reflect HTTP, then the types should match the http spec s much as possible. I'm not sure what type the http spec says the value of the content-type header is.
alanr: the ^^xsd:string should be inferred if the range of the predicate is specified properly
timbl: no, doesn't work that way
<Stuart> IIRC typed literals and plain literals are distinct in RDF.
alanr: have to check that one
***** let's plan to leave off at 9:55 so that we can consider next steps (homework) *****
alanr: maybe change the n3 parser to that "string" missing a ^^ is impicitly a xsd:string
<alanr> alan agrees that syntax should match practice
<Stuart> *if* you make that change how would you then enter a plain literal?
ISSUE: use of "..." syntax in relation to strings and literatls -- table
<Stuart> ...and what would you do about all the existing N3/Turtle documents.
<alanr> hasDirectGetReply subproperty hasGetReply
dbooth: next rule is questionable
- it says that a 301 means that the new location URI names the
same resource as the original
... this is based on the http spec
****** it's 9:55
dbooth: this is a somewhat
... then what is the purpose of IR if these two things are *not* the same
<alanr> then informationresource not an abstract object?
stuart: which rule?
<timbl> ?r1 = ?r2 .
<dbooth> dbooth: I should give each rule a name, for easier reference
<dbooth> stuart: line numbers would be good.
dbooth: the one whose comment starts "Furthermore, 301, 302, and 307"
stuart: suggests everyone read and comment on the rule set, via email, before next meeting
timbl: different information
resources that are the same work - please read the design
... specific vs. generic IRs -- core to the way the web works
<dbooth> dbooth: if the two things should *not* be considered the same IR, then why not?
timbl: timbls's goal for next
week: figure same-work-as into this ontology
... you can have uris that aren't "on the web", or that are for IRs but have no reference to the web
[scribe may have made up 'are for IRs' in the previous. need to be careful]
<alanr> permanent redirect shouldn't be from permanent to temporary, though
(discussion about 301, 302, and what they say about where the resource is, now & later)
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/in/and/ Succeeded: i/jar: We discussed the progress/Scribe: dbooth Succeeded: i/jar: We discussed the progress/ScribeNick: dbooth Succeeded: i/discussion of jar's table/Scribe: jar Found Scribe: dbooth Found ScribeNick: dbooth Found Scribe: jar Inferring ScribeNick: jar Scribes: dbooth, jar ScribeNicks: dbooth, jar Default Present: +1.617.253.aaaa, Alan, TimBL, jar, stuart, dbooth Present: TimBL DBooth AlanR Jonathan Stuart Got date from IRC log name: 04 Mar 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/03/04-awwsw-minutes.html People with action items:[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]