W3C

- DRAFT -

Web Application Formats Working Group Teleconference
06 Feb 2008

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Art, Anne, Mike, Jonas, David, Thomas
Regrets
Chair
Art
Scribe
Art

Contents


 

 

<trackbot-ng> Date: 06 February 2008

<anne> Zakim. who is om the phone?

<anne> Zakim. who is on the phone?

<anne> ArtB, k

<scribe> Scribe: Art

<scribe> ScribeNick: ArtB

Review Agenda

AB: we will skip #2 and #3 since there were no comments on those agenda items

Proposal for a way to avoid round-trip ...

AB: Anne, what's the status?

AvK: pending some comments
... integrated in the ED now

AB: who are you waiting for comments from?

AvK: everyone i.e. no one in particular
... Jonas had some comments

JS: not much we can do to tweak this
... not sure we can do what Mark wants
... I think the current spec is as secure as it can be made

AvK: Google says its important as well as the REST guys

AB: does this proposal address the issues the REST guys made

AvK: yes, I think so

JS: but they haven't responded as such

DO: I found it hard to follow; not sure how it all works together
... may be waiting for it to be integrated in the spec

AvK: I've also added examples to the spec
... I think I've addressed their concerns
... If 10 posts, need to do 12 requests total and that's not too bad

JS: would still like to get some more feedback from them

AvK: I agree explicit consent would be better

JS: there a couple of minor details I still want to change but they aren't behavioral
... e.g. some stuff with the slashes

AvK: must start with a slash but doesn't have to end with one

JS: if I have the foo dir is /foo or /foo/?
... not clear where to put the policy
... it would be good to get some more feedback on the URI syntax

AvK: agree but that would be relatively easy to change

AB: agree we need more review and "explicit consent"; how do we get that?

DO: typically would publish a new WD

AvK: could you send an email to Mark, Tyler, and others?

DO: Stuart and I also raised related concerns

<MikeSmith> Tyler is Tyler Close

AvK: would like to get quick feedback

DO: the reqs seem to be settling but this is a big change thus a new WD seems like the right way to go

AvK: I suppose a new WD would be OK but prefer a LC
... we could publish a WD and then in a few weeks go to LC

DO: I think the changes are too substantial to go directly to LC

AvK: there is a precedence to publish a FPWD and LC at the same time

AB: any objections to an immediate new WD?

AvK: don't want it to delay LC

AB: Mike, what is the Team's position?
... on WD and LC?

MS: I think there have been too many objections to this work item to publish this as an LC under the current charter and its extension
... this isn't a final decision by the Team but that's where we stand now

AvK: are these objections from the Team or Members? Where is the archive?

MS: some on the public archive; some based on internal discussions

AvK: I think we've addressed the issues raised

MS: there is a question about whether this spec is within the group's charter
... The charter is a bit broad
... I think the group did this work in good faith
... If people didn't pay attention, that's not this group's fault
... I don't think anyone tried to "sneak in this work"

<dorchard> I'm not sure what this means for the group publishing another Working Draft though...

TR: I don't have much to add to what Mike said
... There should not be a LC going out under the current charter

MS: that is true i.e. that's the Team's consensus

AvK: the Selectors spec in the Web API WG was able to go to LC
... despite going out of charter

TR: I don't know the specifics of that case

JS: one reason this group started this work is because this mechanism is needed by XBL2

AB: I agree and have argued that point
... Seems like the problem is that we are now in this "limbo" state

<anne> http://www.w3.org/TR/selectors-api/ is the precedent I was talking about

MS: not clear how long it will take for the new charter to get approved
... we have a combination of the "limbo" state but also not clear where this is going to end up in the next charters

DO: we should be able to publish a new WD, right?
... or is that not allowed?

AB: yes, what is the answer Mike?

MS: I can't make a decision now

AvK: when will you know?

TR: based on my recollection - there will be no LC pub; I do not recall a decsion on the WD question
... If the WG wants to publish a "normal" WD then the Team can discuss this

AvK: we want not just a new WD but also a LC

DO: I think we should publish a WD and not a LC regardless of precedence

AvK: again, I'm OK with a WD now but then want a LC two weeks later

AB: perhaps we can consensus to publish a WD now and then ask the Team to consider us publishing a LC during the extension period

AvK: I think there is indeed a precedence for us to publish a LC during the extension period

AB: I propose we publish a new WD ASAP
... any objections?

[none heard]

AB: any changes you want to make Anne?

AvK: just a few changes

DO: and I have a couple of quick changes I'd like to get in

MS: once we are ready, we should be able to get it published quickly

RESOLUTION: publish a new WD as soon as Anne is ready

DO: let's set a deadline for comments

AB: OK

AvK: let's set the target for next Tuesday

<scribe> ACTION: Mike determine the Team's position on us publishing a LC version during this extension period [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Mike

<trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. mamend, mike)

<MikeSmith> ACTION: Michael(tm) to determine the Team's position on us publishing a LC version during this extension perioad [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-167 - Determine the Team's position on us publishing a LC version during this extension perioad [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2008-02-13].

<tlr> I have no good sense when charter review will happen.

AB: Mike, when do you expect the charter to go out for formal AC review?

MS: I will push this and hope to get it out next week

AB: ok, great

<tlr> MS: I will report back to the group when I have a clearer idea; can't do that today, though

<MikeSmith> tlr - thanks

Issue #21

AB: are there any gaps or holes that need to be filled?
... the latest ED contains a lot of info to address this issue

JS: we used to have a description about what can currently be done regarding XSS but it was removed
... would like to know why it was removed because it seems like that info is relevant for the Security Model

AvK: I think we just changed the Intro; it's bit more abstract now
... we still mention the Same Origin Policy

AB: Jonas, can you identify the text you'd like to get added?

JS: yes, I can submit something

<scribe> ACTION: Jonas submit an input that will result in closing Issue #21 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-168 - Submit an input that will result in closing Issue #21 [on Jonas Sicking - due 2008-02-13].

<MikeSmith> action-155?

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-155 -- Jonas Sicking to send a request for comments regarding the policy decision questions and issues -- due 2008-01-30 -- CLOSED

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/actions/155

<MikeSmith> issue-21?

<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-21 -- What is the Security Model for the access-control spec? -- RAISED

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/waf/issues/21

Issue #20

AB: have a detailed discussion on the mail list
... we've had inputs from Thomas, Tyler, Jonas and maybe others
... Jonas: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008Feb/0007.html
... just want to discuss how to get consensus and keep the technical discussion on the mail list

JS: need to have some policy enforcement in the client

AvK: I want to close

DO: I'm still concerned about this issue
... we've been discussing this issue internally
... I'm not prepared to close it now

JS: but we need feedback on this issue

DO: I understand; it's been hard to get the right people in BEA involved
... I've been talking to other people too; I'm active on it

JS: currently client PEP adds complexity
... wonder if we have added to many features
... but I'll post my comments on the mail list

[ some discussion missing ... ]

<anne> sicking:

Issue #22 ac4csr-webarch

<anne> sicking, so dropping method whitelisting?

<sicking> anne, yes

AB: what should we do with this?

<anne> seems fine to me... less text :)

DO: I thought the Hixie and Anne proposal addressed it

AvK: yes I agree

DO: I think we should resolve it as closed

<scribe> ACTION: Orchard close issue #22 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-169 - Close issue #22 [on David Orchard - due 2008-02-13].

AOB

AB: do we want to have a call next week?

AvK: I'm fine either way

DO: hopefully we should have just published a WD and may not have much to talk about

AB: I tend to agree

AvK: what about two week?

AB: sounds good and hopefull Mike will have an answer from tthe Team regarding LC by then

JS: Mozilla is going to do a security review next Tuesday
... it is open to the public and anyone can dial in
... I will post details to the mail list

AB: listen mode only OK?

JS: absolutely

MS: yes, two weeks should be enough time

AB: no call next week; next call on Feb 20
... meeting adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Jonas submit an input that will result in closing Issue #21 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael(tm) to determine the Team's position on us publishing a LC version during this extension perioad [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Mike determine the Team's position on us publishing a LC version during this extension period [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Orchard close issue #22 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html#action04]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2008/02/06 21:14:46 $

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Succeeded: s/no such sense/no good sense when charter review will happen/
Found Scribe: Art
Found ScribeNick: ArtB
Default Present: MikeSmith, ArtB, Dave_Orchard, Sicking, anne, Thomas, billyjack

WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Art, Jonas, David, Mike, Anne, Thomas_(IRC))
Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
such as: <dbooth> Present+ Art, Anne, Mike, Jonas, David, Thomas

Present: Art Anne Mike Jonas David Thomas
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-appformats/2008Feb/0027.html
Found Date: 06 Feb 2008
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/02/06-waf-minutes.html
People with action items: jonas michael mike orchard tm

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