See also: IRC log
<LeeF> thanks, zakim
<Vipul> Welcome jennier
<LeeF> Scribe: Jennifer
<Vipul> EricP can you come on Zakim
<Vipul> 1. Roll Call
<Vipul> 2. Admin Issues: Set up mailing List
who will do this?
<Vipul> EricP, please come on line?
Eric will set up mailing list for COI task force, but he is not on the call
<LeeF> ScribeNick: fostel
<Vipul> 3. Mock Patient Data for Diabetes and Hypertension
vipul: good meting with
... should have mock data soon
Parsa: format of data? out / in
... historic data?
vipul: example of each in and
outpt; data items in example;
... example protocols from clinicaltrials.gov
narrative or structured?
vipul -- format should not be an issue
parsa -- searched reports for outpt data + history + contextual data; have several cases in narrative form; will upload
parsa -- not of the data reports have all of the elements listed by vipul; need a handful of pts showing different data elements
parsa: discussion with UTx clinic; collect outpt data; willing to share whole data set, lab reports in a few days. 2K pts data; need to strip out IDs
vipul: sample of pts from this database
parsa: focus on diabetes nad hypertension; use remaining to test our format / model
next agenda: Jyoti clarification
Joyti - plannignmeeting with div epidemiology planned for early Feb; will try to obtain data
action item - jyoti report back after this meeting
<Vipul> ACTION: Jyoti to report back after 1st Feb [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html#action01]
<Vipul> Peter Elkin
joyti: peter Elkin not aware / not interested
jyoti: harold in not in the loop at this point; need to involve him; will discuss this week; send e-mail to vipul
vipul: tom still working on data;
set up a meeting
... useful to get data from different sources to stress the system
rachel: no access to data; provide dummy data?
sorry about typos!
vipul: progress on dummy pt data;
data requirements ... George?
... George will come up with data requirements for hypertensive study
... minimum dataset for clinical study; particular data items must be included
fostel: we should check CONSORT
for minimum data
rachel?: not aware of minimal data in research trials
fostel: argee with rachel re minimal reqs
vipul: data from free research
protocols; distributed to data people; will upload the
... work on mapping
... will identify key data items from the spreadsheet;
... aim to look at data requirements eg pt age; HL7 RIM - how is pt age modeled
... role = pt; attribute = birth time; data type = time stamp
<Parsa> URL for CONSORT: http://www.consort-statement.org/
vipul; yesterday distributed spreadsheet; tom-- how will DCM elements be found?
vipul: gender example -- HL7 has
code; RIM has well defined domains
... RIM has terminology, eg male / female; also can bind user own data terms
... blood pressure -- observation; obs type = physical exam for instance
... RIM obs.code and obs value; code = obs type; this is what Tom was referring to
... obs value domain bind to ICD9, or bind to SNOMED; HL7-RIM is agnostic to vocab, can bind ot any set of terms
who?: in NL can use terminology, JP can use another teminology
vipul: drug = zenical; HL7-RIM
would need route, dosage, frequency, time of delivery
... we need to model time
fostel: time is a critical thing to model, indeed!
vipul: model needs to be general; pt recruitment, trial, etc. not hard code it based on one use case
Tom: some folks may store these
data, eg administration of drug, in which case route,
frequency, etc would be stored
... :pt is taking fentinyl" is a different case; eg pt is taking the drug but we do not have administration details
... if the derived data are frequently-queried, then store them; they always store granular administration data
parsa: direct and indirect
evidence -- pts may have assertion that he has fever (in vital
signs) or may have medication for fever in chart
... model depends on goal; physician note/diagnosis regarding disease, med, symptom; or is it sufficient to infer this from other evidence?
vipul: example - document posted on wiki -
parsa: self-reported fever; family-reported fevel; practitioner-reported fever; objeective fever (based on measurement)
vipul: we are thinking of
modeling the first three as inference
... these will be identified suring mapping across systems
... assessment not inference
... example, protocol 8, criteria 16: uncontrolled hypertension has value greater than N; in ER would only have the raw values, reasoner would need to be able to infer diagnosis
... will distribute the spreadsheet; can we fill out DCM elements?
... any standard; not just DCM
... action item for tom -- DCM values for these rows
... HL7 has std way to go to vocab; will we use this method or another?
tom: they have internal vocab; may be mappable to LOINC, etc, but they bind their model to their terms
<Vipul> ACTION: Tom Oniki to come up with DCM elements for the list of HL7/RIM elements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html#action02]
parsa: std way to map?
vipul: next agenda: clarification
to some folks; will send further
... scope of project; something accomplished within 6 to 9 months, but not too narrow a scope
... good prospects - Deni (institution in Ireland?) has identified a student to help with the tasks
... lee (online but muted) cambridge informatics, implementation of mapping model
... need to answer questions raised before mapping
<LeeF> Cambridge Semantics, actually :)
vipul: much work in mapping to be done; RIM to use case
<Vipul> ACTION: Vipul to send out the brainstorming slides to the rest of the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html#action03]
who? fine grained details about contents of fields; this is useful in order to line up groups to handle the tasks
vipul: high level functional specs; details (RDF, Owl, ..) up to implementer
who = Parsa
parsa: is there a sematic
representation of HL7RIM that we can use as basis of mapping or
do we have to create one?
... every narrative has to be converted ton RDF/OWL representation
vipul: no single structure now; we are not making one; we want to make a representation that will be useful to other use cases
<LeeF> suggestion: model the RIM to the extent we have instance data for it for the use case
parsa: yes, we are not modeling entier RIM; but part that is useful to our use case still needs to bemapped
<LeeF> (ah, I guess that's what Parsa just suggested also :-)
vipul: we are sending the specs around
<JyotiPathak> Apologies -- I am signing out; need to run for another meeting.
who: RIM Is Obj Oriented; they have UML; we need to translate this to class hierarchy in automated way
who?: propose RIM-OWL demonstration;
who? look at data description not RIM model; RIM is high level
<LeeF> who = Helen, I think
vipul: look at sematic binding
helen: then go to CDA
... RIM doesn't lend much to semantics
tom: RIM is high level; not as up
to date as Dan as how they do constraints
... constrain HML representation of document
vipul: look at CDA into more detail
susie (aka helan): translate directly into RDF from CDA
keep us all inthe loop!
vipul: work with Dan on HL7 descriptions, Tom RIM, Helen CDA
<scribe> ACTION: email spreadsheet [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html#action04]
<Vipul> ACTION: Helen Chen to investigtat the CDA [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html#action05]
vipul: see you next week!
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Jennifer Found ScribeNick: fostel WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: Tony, LeeF, +1.781.416.aaaa, +1.519.746.aabb, Susie, Helen_Chen, Bo.Anderssen, Vipul, Jennifer, +1.813.484.aacc, TomL, RachelRichesson, Parsa Present: Tony LeeF +1.781.416.aaaa +1.519.746.aabb Susie Helen_Chen Bo.Anderssen Vipul Jennifer +1.813.484.aacc TomL RachelRichesson Parsa WARNING: No meeting title found! You should specify the meeting title like this: <dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting WARNING: No meeting chair found! You should specify the meeting chair like this: <dbooth> Chair: dbooth Got date from IRC log name: 8 Jan 2008 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2008/01/08-hcls-minutes.html People with action items: chen email helen jyoti oniki tom vipul WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]