OWL Working Group

Minutes of 06 August 2008

Present
Peter Patel-Schneider Bernardo Cuenca Grau Ratnesh Sahay Ian Horrocks Markus Krötzsch Mike Smith Achille Fokoue Rinke Hoekstra Zhe Wu Jie Bao Jeff Pan Michael Schneider Evan Wallace
Regrets
Carsten Lutz Uli Sattler Elisa Kendall Evan Wallace
Chair
Ian Horrocks
Scribe
Bernardo Cuenca Grau
IRC Log
Original and Editable Wiki Version
Resolutions
  1. minutes from last week approved link
  2. F2F Minutes approved link
  3. Resolve Issue-108 by using profile names from row 3 or table at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names (to wit, OWL EL, OWL QL, OWL RL); OWL DL and OWL Full are unchanged. link
Topics
00:00:00 <scribenick> PRESENT: Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau, ratnesh, Ian_Horrocks, MarkusK, msmith, Achille, Rinke, Zhe, baojie, JeffP, m_schnei, Evan_Wallace
00:00:00 <scribenick> REGRETS: Carsten Lutz, Uli Sattler, Elisa Kendall, Evan Wallace
00:00:00 <scribenick> CHAIR: IanH
16:52:21 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/06-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/08/06-owl-irc

16:52:42 <IanH> IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.08.06/Agenda

Ian Horrocks: IanH has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.08.06/Agenda

16:52:55 <IanH> Zakim, this will be owlwg

Ian Horrocks: Zakim, this will be owlwg

16:52:55 <Zakim> ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, IanH; I see SW_OWL()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

16:53:23 <IanH> RRSAgent, make records public

Ian Horrocks: RRSAgent, make records public

16:56:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has now started

16:56:33 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider

16:56:45 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13

16:57:11 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P13 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P13 is me

16:57:11 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it

16:58:37 <IanH> ScribeNick: bcuencagrau

(Scribe set to Bernardo Cuenca Grau)

16:58:47 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Zakim, mute me

16:58:47 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

16:59:29 <Zakim> +??P20

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P20

16:59:38 <ratnesh> Zakim, ??P20 is me

Ratnesh Sahay: Zakim, ??P20 is me

16:59:46 <Zakim> +ratnesh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ratnesh; got it

16:59:50 <Zakim> +Ian_Horrocks

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ian_Horrocks

17:00:13 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

17:01:28 <IanH> I should have said not too many important people here yet ;-)

Ian Horrocks: I should have said not too many important people here yet ;-)

17:01:44 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aaaa

17:02:00 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM]

17:02:25 <Achille> Zakim, ibm is Achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, ibm is Achille

17:02:25 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

17:02:26 <IanH> zakim [IBM] is Achille

Ian Horrocks: zakim [IBM] is Achille

17:02:35 <Zakim> +??P4

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4

17:02:39 <Rinke> zakim, +??P4 is me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, +??P4 is me

17:02:39 <Zakim> sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Rinke, I do not recognize a party named '+??P4'

17:02:54 <Rinke> Zakim, ??P4 is me

Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, ??P4 is me

17:02:54 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it

17:02:57 <Rinke> zakim, mute me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me

17:02:57 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted

17:03:14 <bcuencagrau> Topic: Admin

1. Admin

17:03:15 <bcuencagrau> Ianh: start with administration issues

Ian Horrocks: start with administration issues

17:03:30 <pfps> looks fine to me

Peter Patel-Schneider: looks fine to me

17:03:30 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aabb

17:03:37 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Approval of minutes from last week

Ian Horrocks: Approval of minutes from last week

17:03:40 <Rinke> look fine to me as well

Rinke Hoekstra: look fine to me as well

17:03:42 <Zhe> zakim, +1.603.897.aabb is me

Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.603.897.aabb is me

17:03:42 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it

17:03:51 <Zhe> zakim, unmute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, unmute me

17:03:51 <Zakim> Zhe was not muted, Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe was not muted, Zhe

17:03:51 <bcuencagrau> RESOLVED: minutes from last week approved

RESOLVED: minutes from last week approved

17:03:56 <pfps> look OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: look OK

17:03:58 <Rinke> they look ok

Rinke Hoekstra: they look ok

17:04:01 <bcuencagrau> IanH: What about F2F minutes?

Ian Horrocks: What about F2F minutes?

17:04:04 <Achille> +1 for the f2f

Achille Fokoue: +1 for the f2f

17:04:06 <Zhe> zakim, mute me

Zhe Wu: zakim, mute me

17:04:06 <Zakim> Zhe should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Zhe should now be muted

17:04:11 <bcuencagrau> RESOLVED: F2F Minutes approved

RESOLVED: F2F Minutes approved

17:04:20 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aacc

17:04:34 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Action items

Ian Horrocks: Action items

17:04:46 <bcuencagrau> IanH: First action is due to Boris

Ian Horrocks: First action is due to Boris

17:04:52 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Boris is not here

Ian Horrocks: Boris is not here

17:05:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Pass over this one

Ian Horrocks: Pass over this one

17:05:18 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:05:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), ratnesh, Ian_Horrocks, MarkusK, msmith, Achille, Rinke (muted), Zhe (muted), +1.518.276.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), ratnesh, Ian_Horrocks, MarkusK, msmith, Achille, Rinke (muted), Zhe (muted), +1.518.276.aacc

17:05:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see JeffP, Zhe, Achille, msmith, MarkusK, ratnesh, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, baojie, pfps, Rinke, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JeffP, Zhe, Achille, msmith, MarkusK, ratnesh, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, baojie, pfps, Rinke, sandro, trackbot

17:05:35 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Sandro is on vacation, so we pass over the second issue

Ian Horrocks: Sandro is on vacation, so we pass over the second issue

17:05:37 <pfps> Sandro did his action

Peter Patel-Schneider: Sandro did his action

17:05:40 <Zakim> +qreul

Zakim IRC Bot: +qreul

17:05:44 <Rinke> Boris says "2008-07-29 15:35:08: This action seems moot to me given the discussion about annotations that we had at the 3F2F. [Boris Motik]" in the notes of Action-171

Rinke Hoekstra: Boris says "2008-07-29 15:35:08: This action seems moot to me given the discussion about annotations that we had at the 3F2F. [Boris Motik]" in the notes of ACTION-171

17:05:48 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Jie completed his action

Ian Horrocks: Jie completed his action

17:05:49 <JeffP> zakim, qreul is me

Jeff Pan: zakim, qreul is me

17:05:49 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP; got it

17:05:59 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Sandro also did his action

Ian Horrocks: Sandro also did his action

17:06:33 <bcuencagrau> Subtopic: Comment on XML Schema Datatypes 1.1 draft

1.1. Comment on XML Schema Datatypes 1.1 draft

17:06:34 <bcuencagrau> pfps: issues with datatypes

Peter Patel-Schneider: issues with datatypes

17:06:43 <msmith> requirement *with* timezone

Mike Smith: requirement *with* timezone

17:06:57 <bcuencagrau> pfps: in particular how day and time should work

Peter Patel-Schneider: in particular how day and time should work

17:07:03 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

17:07:15 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P15 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P15 is me

17:07:15 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it

17:07:20 <bcuencagrau> pfps: XML Schema datatypes have a strange notion of identity

Peter Patel-Schneider: XML Schema datatypes have a strange notion of identity

17:07:20 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:07:20 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:07:43 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I do not see the problem. We are just saying that we are not considering time without time zones

Ian Horrocks: I do not see the problem. We are just saying that we are not considering time without time zones

17:07:51 <bcuencagrau> IanH: applications could still do otherwise

Ian Horrocks: applications could still do otherwise

17:08:12 <bcuencagrau> pfps: I guess this would solve the problem

Peter Patel-Schneider: I guess this would solve the problem

17:08:15 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

17:08:37 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should still comment that XML Schema allowing for time without time zone is strange

Ian Horrocks: We should still comment that XML Schema allowing for time without time zone is strange

17:09:09 <pfps> the problem is really that a missing timezone is a *value* not something missing

Peter Patel-Schneider: the problem is really that a missing timezone is a *value* not something missing

17:09:20 <bcuencagrau> IanH: suggest that peter sends his comments on behalf of the working group

Ian Horrocks: suggest that peter sends his comments on behalf of the working group

17:09:40 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we should decide that next week

Ian Horrocks: we should decide that next week

17:09:50 <bcuencagrau> IanH: due and overdue actions

Ian Horrocks: due and overdue actions

17:09:53 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

17:09:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), ratnesh, Ian_Horrocks, MarkusK, msmith, Achille, Rinke (muted), Zhe (muted), +1.518.276.aacc, JeffP, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Peter_Patel-Schneider, bcuencagrau (muted), ratnesh, Ian_Horrocks, MarkusK, msmith, Achille, Rinke (muted), Zhe (muted), +1.518.276.aacc, JeffP, m_schnei

17:09:56 <Zakim> ... (muted), Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), Evan_Wallace

17:09:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:09:57 <bcuencagrau> IanH: First one from Diego

Ian Horrocks: First one from Diego

17:09:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see ewallace, m_schnei, JeffP, Zhe, Achille, msmith, MarkusK, ratnesh, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, baojie, pfps, Rinke, sandro, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see ewallace, m_schnei, JeffP, Zhe, Achille, msmith, MarkusK, ratnesh, bcuencagrau, RRSAgent, Zakim, IanH, baojie, pfps, Rinke, sandro, trackbot

17:10:35 <IanH> zakim, aacc is baojie

Ian Horrocks: zakim, aacc is baojie

17:10:35 <Zakim> +baojie; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie; got it

17:10:50 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Diego is not here

Ian Horrocks: Diego is not here

17:10:58 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Jie also had an action

Ian Horrocks: Jie also had an action

17:11:13 <bcuencagrau> baoJie: this is in progress

Jie Bao: this is in progress

17:11:20 <bcuencagrau> baoJie: maybe next week

Jie Bao: maybe next week

17:11:43 <bcuencagrau> IanH: let's push it forward two weeks

Ian Horrocks: let's push it forward two weeks

17:12:02 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Bijan had another issue, but he is not on the call

Ian Horrocks: Bijan had another issue, but he is not on the call

17:12:17 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Alan's action is done

Ian Horrocks: Alan's action is done

17:12:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Action 168, Bijan is not on the call

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-168, Bijan is not on the call

17:12:37 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:12:37 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:12:55 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Next two ones are also assigned to people who are not in the call

Ian Horrocks: Next two ones are also assigned to people who are not in the call

17:13:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: next is due to michael schneider

Ian Horrocks: next is due to michael schneider

17:13:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: this action will be pushed for a week

Ian Horrocks: this action will be pushed for a week

17:13:29 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:13:29 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:13:41 <bcuencagrau> IanH: done with admin stuff

Ian Horrocks: done with admin stuff

17:13:41 <pfps> is alan's action done?  where is the email exchange?

Peter Patel-Schneider: is alan's action done? where is the email exchange?

17:14:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:14:00 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should summarize the discussions from the F2F

Ian Horrocks: We should summarize the discussions from the F2F

17:14:06 <pfps> yes

Peter Patel-Schneider: yes

17:14:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Alan is on holiday, but he did contact Deb and got a response

Ian Horrocks: Alan is on holiday, but he did contact Deb and got a response

17:14:29 <pfps> if we haven't seen the exchange, then the action isn't done

Peter Patel-Schneider: if we haven't seen the exchange, then the action isn't done

17:14:30 <bcuencagrau> Topic: Outcomes of and actions from Boston F2F

2. Outcomes of and actions from Boston F2F

17:15:13 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Summary of the outcomes from the F2F

Ian Horrocks: Summary of the outcomes from the F2F

17:15:48 <bcuencagrau> IanH: First thing. Datatypes

Ian Horrocks: First thing. Datatypes

17:16:07 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we agreed on resolving on going with the email that Boris sent

Ian Horrocks: we agreed on resolving on going with the email that Boris sent

17:16:29 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we decided to have float and double as having discreat points

Ian Horrocks: we decided to have float and double as having discreat points

17:16:42 <bcuencagrau> IanH: It turns out it is not difficult to implement

Ian Horrocks: It turns out it is not difficult to implement

17:16:56 <bcuencagrau> ianH: We postponed the issue with rationals and n-ary

Ian Horrocks: We postponed the issue with rationals and n-ary

17:17:13 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we discussed about day and time and agree to align with XML Schema

Ian Horrocks: we discussed about day and time and agree to align with XML Schema

17:17:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:17:25 <bcuencagrau> IanH: anyone disagreeing?

Ian Horrocks: anyone disagreeing?

17:17:31 <Achille> +1 for ianh summary

Achille Fokoue: +1 for ianh summary

17:17:40 <msmith> +1 to summary

Mike Smith: +1 to summary

17:17:41 <Rinke> +1 happy

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 happy

17:17:43 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

17:17:45 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

17:17:52 <bcuencagrau> IanH: people are happy

Ian Horrocks: people are happy

17:18:15 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Second, structural equivalence of literals based on syntactic form

Ian Horrocks: Second, structural equivalence of literals based on syntactic form

17:18:41 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We do not consider if they are semantically equivalent

Ian Horrocks: We do not consider if they are semantically equivalent

17:18:59 <bcuencagrau> ianH: then, annotations. This is postponed pending on details about rich annotations

Ian Horrocks: then, annotations. This is postponed pending on details about rich annotations

17:19:09 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Still a lot to say about that

Ian Horrocks: Still a lot to say about that

17:19:36 <bcuencagrau> IanH: profiles. We got the proposal to resolve

Ian Horrocks: profiles. We got the proposal to resolve

17:19:49 <bcuencagrau> ianH: Unification of OWL R flavour

Ian Horrocks: Unification of OWL R flavour

17:19:57 <bcuencagrau> IanH: no unanimous approval

Ian Horrocks: no unanimous approval

17:20:23 <bcuencagrau> IanH: OWL Full

Ian Horrocks: OWL Full

17:20:55 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we can signal OWL Full sometimes without having an explicit annotation

Ian Horrocks: we can signal OWL Full sometimes without having an explicit annotation

17:20:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:21:04 <Rinke> I think it's really hacky

Rinke Hoekstra: I think it's really hacky

17:21:11 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Example <sameAs sameAs sameAs>

Ian Horrocks: Example &lt;sameAs sameAs sameAs&gt;

17:21:30 <bcuencagrau> IanH: agreed that it is Hacky but it avoids some problem

Ian Horrocks: agreed that it is Hacky but it avoids some problem

17:21:31 <pfps> ... but it's a *neat* hack (at least so far as RDF goes)

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... but it's a *neat* hack (at least so far as RDF goes)

17:21:31 <msmith>  owl:intendedProfile

Mike Smith: owl:intendedProfile

17:21:34 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:21:38 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me

17:21:38 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted

17:21:41 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:21:41 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:21:49 <Rinke> zakim, mute me

Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me

17:21:49 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted

17:21:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:22:02 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:22:04 <bcuencagrau> Michael, i cannot hear you

Michael, i cannot hear you

17:22:14 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, unmute me

Zakim, unmute me

17:22:14 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

17:22:47 <ewallace> no better

Evan Wallace: no better

17:22:54 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Zakim, mute me

17:22:54 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

17:23:51 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: I do not think that the olution has a practical value

Michael Schneider: I do not think that the olution has a practical value

17:23:56 <msmith> +1 to m_schnei.  if an ontology is otherwise syntactically DL its difficult to understand why someone would express a full intent

Mike Smith: +1 to m_schnei. if an ontology is otherwise syntactically DL its difficult to understand why someone would express a full intent

17:24:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:24:07 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:24:08 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: people writing an OWL Full ontology would never write such a triple

Michael Schneider: people writing an OWL Full ontology would never write such a triple

17:24:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:24:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we should put this a s a suggestion, rather than as a requirement

Ian Horrocks: we should put this a s a suggestion, rather than as a requirement

17:24:32 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:24:32 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:24:51 <ewallace> It doesn't hurt to suggest it, if people care.

Evan Wallace: It doesn't hurt to suggest it, if people care.

17:24:51 <bcuencagrau> pfps: people will hardly ever do it

Peter Patel-Schneider: people will hardly ever do it

17:25:17 <m_schnei> alternative would be, DL authors write NegativePropertyAssertion(sameAs sameAs sameAs) ;-)

Michael Schneider: alternative would be, DL authors write NegativePropertyAssertion(sameAs sameAs sameAs) ;-)

17:25:22 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we can resolve the issue by putting this as a suggestion

Ian Horrocks: we can resolve the issue by putting this as a suggestion

17:25:33 <bcuencagrau> IanH: everyone happy?

Ian Horrocks: everyone happy?

17:25:34 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

17:25:35 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

17:25:35 <MarkusK> +1 to Ians suggestions

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Ians suggestions

17:25:37 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

17:25:47 <ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

17:25:47 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:25:53 <m_schnei> +1 to suggestion

Michael Schneider: +1 to suggestion

17:25:56 <baojie> 0

Jie Bao: 0

17:25:57 <IanH> Subtopic: Strawpoll on resolving issue-111

2.1. Strawpoll on resolving ISSUE-111

17:26:14 <IanH> Strawpoll: Resolve issue by suggesting this triple be added by any users who want to *insist* on being an OWL Full ontology

STRAWPOLL: Resolve issue by suggesting this triple be added by any users who want to *insist* on being an OWL Full ontology

17:26:16 <pfps> +1 to strawpoll

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to strawpoll

17:26:19 <m_schnei> (but we could even opt to say nothing about it at all)

Michael Schneider: (but we could even opt to say nothing about it at all)

17:26:21 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

17:26:22 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

17:26:23 <msmith> +1, noting that this might be used in the test suite as well

Mike Smith: +1, noting that this might be used in the test suite as well

17:26:24 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

17:26:25 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

17:26:28 <IanH> +

Ian Horrocks: +

17:26:28 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:27:04 <msmith> and NegativePropertyAssertion(sameAs sameAs sameAs) isn't really syntactically DL :)

Mike Smith: and NegativePropertyAssertion(sameAs sameAs sameAs) isn't really syntactically DL :)

17:27:11 <bcuencagrau> IanH: now we can respond to Sandro, who raised the issue

Ian Horrocks: now we can respond to Sandro, who raised the issue

17:27:23 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:28:00 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I will come up with a proposal to resolve thi issue

Ian Horrocks: I will come up with a proposal to resolve thi issue

17:28:10 <bcuencagrau> IanH: this is all about profiles

Ian Horrocks: this is all about profiles

17:28:19 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We also discussed n-ary

Ian Horrocks: We also discussed n-ary

17:28:37 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Bijan should provide a more flashed-out specification

Ian Horrocks: Bijan should provide a more flashed-out specification

17:28:51 <bcuencagrau> ianH: Then, we should decide what part of it should go in the spec

Ian Horrocks: Then, we should decide what part of it should go in the spec

17:29:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:29:08 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

17:29:26 <Achille> +1 for the summary

Achille Fokoue: +1 for the summary

17:29:53 <bcuencagrau> IanH: OWL Full. Michael has come up with a draft of the OWL Full semantics

Ian Horrocks: OWL Full. Michael has come up with a draft of the OWL Full semantics

17:30:06 <bcuencagrau> IanH: the doc will be reviewed by the end of August

Ian Horrocks: the doc will be reviewed by the end of August

17:30:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:30:17 <m_schnei> Full editor's draft (work in progress) <http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Full_Semantics>

Michael Schneider: Full editor's draft (work in progress) &lt;http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Full_Semantics&gt;

17:30:43 <bcuencagrau> IanH: There was a MOF metamodel presented at the F2F

Ian Horrocks: There was a MOF metamodel presented at the F2F

17:31:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: it is basically similar to what we have in the syntax document, but using the formal MOF syntax

Ian Horrocks: it is basically similar to what we have in the syntax document, but using the formal MOF syntax

17:31:31 <bcuencagrau> IanH: The main advantage is that it is good to have it in MOF syntax and use MOF tools#

Ian Horrocks: The main advantage is that it is good to have it in MOF syntax and use MOF tools#

17:31:46 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Lots of emails about thia

Ian Horrocks: Lots of emails about thia

17:32:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: some people are confused about the relation between this syntax and other syntaxes

Ian Horrocks: some people are confused about the relation between this syntax and other syntaxes

17:32:12 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:32:22 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we can probably briefly discuss this

Ian Horrocks: we can probably briefly discuss this

17:32:31 <ewallace> and conrad bock of NIST

Evan Wallace: and conrad bock of NIST

17:33:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Michael, are you happy about this issue?

Ian Horrocks: Michael, are you happy about this issue?

17:33:12 <IanH> Michael?

Ian Horrocks: Michael?

17:33:23 <bcuencagrau> IanH: seems that Michael is gone

Ian Horrocks: seems that Michael is gone

17:33:57 <bcuencagrau> Ewallace: i did not work on the metamodel, but I helped raising the issue

Evan Wallace: i did not work on the metamodel, but I helped raising the issue

17:34:09 <bcuencagrau> ewallace: I thought Conrad would come today

Evan Wallace: I thought Conrad would come today

17:34:25 <bcuencagrau> IanH: User-faced docs

Ian Horrocks: User-faced docs

17:34:41 <bcuencagrau> IanH: not much to say about them because they are at an early stage

Ian Horrocks: not much to say about them because they are at an early stage

17:34:57 <m_schnei> ian, at F2F3 we have settled to say "mike" for msmith, and "michael" for m_schnei :)

Michael Schneider: ian, at F2F3 we have settled to say "mike" for msmith, and "michael" for m_schnei :)

17:35:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:35:29 <bcuencagrau> IanH: They are going to come back with a doc by early september

Ian Horrocks: They are going to come back with a doc by early september

17:35:40 <bcuencagrau> IanH: the requirements doc is in better shape

Ian Horrocks: the requirements doc is in better shape

17:35:51 <ewallace> Most of the work on the req's doc is to slim it down.

Evan Wallace: Most of the work on the req's doc is to slim it down.

17:36:01 <bcuencagrau> IanH: quite long, the authors are trying to make it  shorter and compact

Ian Horrocks: quite long, the authors are trying to make it shorter and compact

17:36:12 <bcuencagrau> IanH: anything to add?

Ian Horrocks: anything to add?

17:36:28 <JeffP> :-)

Jeff Pan: :-)

17:36:31 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Test cases

Ian Horrocks: Test cases

17:36:34 <ewallace> In agreement

Evan Wallace: In agreement

17:36:50 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Some progress has benn made

Ian Horrocks: Some progress has benn made

17:36:56 <MarkusK> right, the wiki will be ready soon, W3C says

Markus Krötzsch: right, the wiki will be ready soon, W3C says

17:37:04 <bcuencagrau> ianH: in a couple of weeks there should be more test cases into the wiki

Ian Horrocks: in a couple of weeks there should be more test cases into the wiki

17:37:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:37:18 <msmith> Encourage anyone that wants to create a test case to look at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/GuideToTestTemplate

Mike Smith: Encourage anyone that wants to create a test case to look at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/GuideToTestTemplate

17:37:22 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we should include tests for the profiles

Ian Horrocks: we should include tests for the profiles

17:37:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: any comments?

Ian Horrocks: any comments?

17:37:46 <bcuencagrau> msmith: people can already create test cases

Mike Smith: people can already create test cases

17:38:20 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Manchester syntax?

Ian Horrocks: Manchester syntax?

17:38:41 <bcuencagrau> ianH: we agreed for it not to be rec. track, but possibly as a note

Ian Horrocks: we agreed for it not to be rec. track, but possibly as a note

17:38:52 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Alan raised some concerns

Ian Horrocks: Alan raised some concerns

17:38:58 <pfps> the document is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/ManchesterSyntax

Peter Patel-Schneider: the document is at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/ManchesterSyntax

17:39:39 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Last thing: publication schedule

Ian Horrocks: Last thing: publication schedule

17:39:49 <bcuencagrau> IanH: we are currently behind schedule

Ian Horrocks: we are currently behind schedule

17:40:06 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should really move on and finalize some of the docs

Ian Horrocks: We should really move on and finalize some of the docs

17:40:19 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should be getting them towards Last Call

Ian Horrocks: We should be getting them towards Last Call

17:40:29 <bcuencagrau> IanH: This should happen by the next F2F

Ian Horrocks: This should happen by the next F2F

17:40:47 <bcuencagrau> IanH: now the documents should be reviewed

Ian Horrocks: now the documents should be reviewed

17:41:30 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We agreed that the core docs have changed quite a lot

Ian Horrocks: We agreed that the core docs have changed quite a lot

17:41:37 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:41:42 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:41:42 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:41:43 <bcuencagrau> ianH: We could probably publish them again by September

Ian Horrocks: We could probably publish them again by September

17:41:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:41:47 <pfps> I thought that we had agreed to publish the whole core.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I thought that we had agreed to publish the whole core.

17:41:51 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:42:04 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, unmute me

Zakim, unmute me

17:42:04 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

17:42:04 <pfps> ... precisely because of Michael's argument.

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... precisely because of Michael's argument.

17:42:16 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Zakim, mute me

17:42:16 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

17:42:51 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: there was an argument to publish them all together because they depend on each other

Michael Schneider: there was an argument to publish them all together because they depend on each other

17:42:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:43:06 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: they should be ready simultaneously

Michael Schneider: they should be ready simultaneously

17:43:15 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:43:15 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:43:44 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

17:43:49 <bcuencagrau> IanH: So, we decided to publish the new versions of the Working Drafts in September

Ian Horrocks: So, we decided to publish the new versions of the Working Drafts in September

17:44:00 <bcuencagrau> ianH: We are now looking for reviewers

Ian Horrocks: We are now looking for reviewers

17:44:05 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing

Ian Horrocks: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Reviewing

17:44:19 <m_schnei> m_schnei: the documents should be published simultanuously, since they are dependent on each other.

Michael Schneider: the documents should be published simultanuously, since they are dependent on each other. [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

17:44:59 <m_schnei> m_schnei: if you change e.g. the functional syntax, then the RDF mapping, the DL semantics, the XML syntax, and perhaps the primer has to be changed too

Michael Schneider: if you change e.g. the functional syntax, then the RDF mapping, the DL semantics, the XML syntax, and perhaps the primer has to be changed too [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

17:45:03 <bcuencagrau> IanH: The RDF-based semantics is the only doc. for which we have 3 reviewers

Ian Horrocks: The RDF-based semantics is the only doc. for which we have 3 reviewers

17:45:14 <Rinke> I guess I could review the XML Serialization

Rinke Hoekstra: I guess I could review the XML Serialization

17:45:16 <bcuencagrau> IanH: the other docs need reviewing

Ian Horrocks: the other docs need reviewing

17:45:27 <Rinke> yup

Rinke Hoekstra: yup

17:45:31 <JeffP> I could review the profile doc

Jeff Pan: I could review the profile doc

17:45:31 <MarkusK> I will have a look at the Semantics

Markus Krötzsch: I will have a look at the Semantics

17:45:44 <Achille> Profile and serialization

Achille Fokoue: Profile and serialization

17:45:54 <MarkusK> yes, model theoretic

Markus Krötzsch: yes, model theoretic

17:46:09 <Achille> XML serialization

Achille Fokoue: XML serialization

17:46:19 <bcuencagrau> Achille: I will review XML Serialization

Achille Fokoue: I will review XML Serialization

17:46:33 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We need someone else to review the Syntax

Ian Horrocks: We need someone else to review the Syntax

17:46:53 <Rinke> It's a big document

Rinke Hoekstra: It's a big document

17:47:09 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We could split the doc

Ian Horrocks: We could split the doc

17:47:18 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I will send another email around

Ian Horrocks: I will send another email around

17:47:42 <bcuencagrau> IanH; This is all about F2F

IanH; This is all about F2F

17:47:43 <bcuencagrau> Topic: Issues

3. Issues

17:47:46 <bcuencagrau> IanH: now, the issues

Ian Horrocks: now, the issues

17:47:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:47:55 <bcuencagrau> Subtopic: Issue 108

3.1. ISSUE-108

17:48:02 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Issue 108, we have a proposal to resolve

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-108, we have a proposal to resolve

17:48:35 <bcuencagrau> msmith: We would like to get the profiles doc published but there are some issues to address

Mike Smith: We would like to get the profiles doc published but there are some issues to address

17:48:47 <bcuencagrau> msmith: one of them being the unification of OWL R

Mike Smith: one of them being the unification of OWL R

17:49:32 <msmith> ok.  then I agree

Mike Smith: ok. then I agree

17:49:36 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I have pointed out the ideal situation

Ian Horrocks: I have pointed out the ideal situation

17:49:57 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should resolve the critical issues in the following couple of weeks

Ian Horrocks: We should resolve the critical issues in the following couple of weeks

17:50:08 <bcuencagrau> IanH: one of them is the issue of profiles names

Ian Horrocks: one of them is the issue of profiles names

17:50:43 <JeffP> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names

Jeff Pan: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names

17:50:45 <bcuencagrau> IanH: It seems that the least controversial way is to use a simple two letter naming scheme

Ian Horrocks: It seems that the least controversial way is to use a simple two letter naming scheme

17:50:53 <Rinke> And Ian's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jul/0453.html

Rinke Hoekstra: And Ian's email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jul/0453.html

17:51:45 <bcuencagrau> The proposal is on the table, second row

The proposal is on the table, second row

17:51:57 <JeffP> Why not OWL 2 FL?

Jeff Pan: Why not OWL 2 FL?

17:52:32 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:52:35 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Jim Hendler complained about changing the name of OWL Full

Ian Horrocks: Jim Hendler complained about changing the name of OWL Full

17:52:35 <msmith> 1-

Mike Smith: 1-

17:52:37 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

17:52:38 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:52:38 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:52:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:52:55 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:53:05 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:53:05 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:53:05 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: this means that we only need to name the profiles

Michael Schneider: this means that we only need to name the profiles

17:53:05 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: this means that we only need to name the profiles

Michael Schneider: this means that we only need to name the profiles

17:53:25 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should just use the three middle columns

Ian Horrocks: We should just use the three middle columns

17:53:48 <m_schnei> m_schnei: we don't have to talk about OWL Full, since the issue is only about names for the *profiles*

Michael Schneider: we don't have to talk about OWL Full, since the issue is only about names for the *profiles* [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

17:54:43 <IanH> PROPOSAL: Resolve Issue-108 by using profile names from row 3 or table at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names; OWL DL and OWL Full are unchanged.

PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-108 by using profile names from row 3 or table at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names; OWL DL and OWL Full are unchanged.

17:54:53 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

17:54:54 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

17:54:54 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

17:54:54 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

17:54:55 <ewallace> +1

Evan Wallace: +1

17:54:56 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

17:54:56 <Zhe1> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

17:54:58 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

17:54:59 <pfps> +1 to finally resolve this xxxxxx issue as EL/QL/RL

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to finally resolve this xxxxxx issue as EL/QL/RL

17:55:07 <msmith> +1 (notes revision of wiki page is  2008-07-29T20:17:27)

Mike Smith: +1 (notes revision of wiki page is 2008-07-29T20:17:27)

17:55:37 <MarkusK> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names

Markus Krötzsch: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names

17:55:49 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

17:55:50 <MarkusK>  sorry: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Profile_Names&oldid=10193

Markus Krötzsch: sorry: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Profile_Names&amp;oldid=10193

17:56:08 <IanH> RESOLVED: Resolve Issue-108 by using profile names from row 3 or table at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names (to wit, OWL EL, OWL QL, OWL RL); OWL DL and OWL Full are unchanged.

RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-108 by using profile names from row 3 or table at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Profile_Names (to wit, OWL EL, OWL QL, OWL RL); OWL DL and OWL Full are unchanged.

17:56:16 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

17:56:19 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

17:56:34 <bcuencagrau> IanH: issue resolved

Ian Horrocks: issue resolved

17:56:49 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

17:56:52 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I skip over 133. Diego is not here

Ian Horrocks: I skip over 133. Diego is not here

17:56:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:57:14 <bcuencagrau> msmith: We may keep on postponing this issue

Mike Smith: We may keep on postponing this issue

17:57:28 <Rinke> +1 to msmith

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to msmith

17:57:32 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Next week we will resolve it with or without Diego

Ian Horrocks: Next week we will resolve it with or without Diego

17:57:45 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Italians do not work in August

Ian Horrocks: Italians do not work in August

17:57:58 <pfps> one is better than two

Peter Patel-Schneider: one is better than two

17:57:59 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

17:58:03 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

17:58:03 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

17:58:12 <msmith> q-

Mike Smith: q-

17:58:14 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

17:58:18 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:58:18 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:58:36 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

17:58:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

17:58:42 <bcuencagrau> IanH: The next issue has Ivan as a protagonist and he is not here

Ian Horrocks: The next issue has Ivan as a protagonist and he is not here

17:58:46 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

17:59:13 <bcuencagrau> pfps: This issue should be resolved ASAP

Peter Patel-Schneider: This issue should be resolved ASAP

17:59:29 <m_schnei> is anything else depending on this name?

Michael Schneider: is anything else depending on this name?

17:59:32 <bcuencagrau> IanH: This issue is mostly a matter of taste

Ian Horrocks: This issue is mostly a matter of taste

17:59:33 <bcuencagrau> Subtopic: Issue 130

3.2. ISSUE-130

17:59:45 <bcuencagrau> Issue 130: new one

ISSUE-130: new one

17:59:53 <m_schnei> except, probably, the GRDDL issue

Michael Schneider: except, probably, the GRDDL issue

18:00:16 <bcuencagrau> IanH: what and where are we going to say about conformance warnings?

Ian Horrocks: what and where are we going to say about conformance warnings?

18:00:23 <pfps> pointer?

Peter Patel-Schneider: pointer?

18:00:52 <msmith> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#conformance

Mike Smith: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#conformance

18:00:59 <IanH> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#conformance

Ian Horrocks: http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#conformance

18:01:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:01:33 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

18:01:35 <JeffP> I need more time to think

Jeff Pan: I need more time to think

18:01:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:02:13 <bcuencagrau> pfps: I think what we did in OWL 1 is reasonable

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think what we did in OWL 1 is reasonable

18:02:17 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I agree

Ian Horrocks: I agree

18:02:40 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:02:40 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We take as a starting point the OWL 1 doc

Ian Horrocks: We take as a starting point the OWL 1 doc

18:02:43 <pfps> +1 to using the OWL 1 wording as the model for the OWL 2 stuff

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to using the OWL 1 wording as the model for the OWL 2 stuff

18:03:06 <bcuencagrau> pfps: What about the Quick |Reference Doc?

Peter Patel-Schneider: What about the Quick |Reference Doc?

18:03:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:03:15 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps

18:03:19 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:03:41 <bcuencagrau> msmith: the doc only talks about syntax checkers and consistency checkers

Mike Smith: the doc only talks about syntax checkers and consistency checkers

18:04:11 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Thi is true. Some of the profiles are more targeted towards query answering

Ian Horrocks: Thi is true. Some of the profiles are more targeted towards query answering

18:04:28 <bcuencagrau> IanH: But we could take this text as a starting point

Ian Horrocks: But we could take this text as a starting point

18:04:38 <ewallace> Not really

Evan Wallace: Not really

18:04:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:05:05 <bcuencagrau> +q

+q

18:05:14 <msmith> Could we spread it out?  syntax conformance in syntax.  semantic conformance in semantics, etc.

Mike Smith: Could we spread it out? syntax conformance in syntax. semantic conformance in semantics, etc.

18:05:22 <bcuencagrau> IanH: nobody really noticed this

Ian Horrocks: nobody really noticed this

18:05:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:05:26 <Rinke> that sounds good actually

Rinke Hoekstra: that sounds good actually

18:05:32 <msmith> q+

Mike Smith: q+

18:05:41 <Rinke> referring to msmith's suggestion

Rinke Hoekstra: referring to msmith's suggestion

18:05:44 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, unmute me

Zakim, unmute me

18:05:44 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

18:05:51 <Rinke> msmith: "Could we spread it out?  syntax conformance in syntax.  semantic conformance in semantics, etc."

Mike Smith: "Could we spread it out? syntax conformance in syntax. semantic conformance in semantics, etc." [ Scribe Assist by Rinke Hoekstra ]

18:06:07 <bcuencagrau> bcuencagrau: what about the profiles doc?

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: what about the profiles doc?

18:06:10 <bcuencagrau> IanH: maybe

Ian Horrocks: maybe

18:06:24 <JeffP> +1 profile

Jeff Pan: +1 profile

18:06:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:06:30 <bcuencagrau> -q

-q

18:06:38 <IanH> ack bcuencagrau

Ian Horrocks: ack bcuencagrau

18:06:40 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Zakim, mute me

18:06:40 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted

18:06:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:06:46 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:06:49 <bcuencagrau> msmith: we could split it

Mike Smith: we could split it

18:07:00 <ewallace> +1 to MSmith suggestion

Evan Wallace: +1 to MSmith suggestion

18:07:09 <bcuencagrau> msmith: sntactic conformance in the syntax doc, etc

Mike Smith: sntactic conformance in the syntax doc, etc

18:07:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:07:32 <Rinke> +1 to split

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to split

18:07:36 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Seems reasonable to split it up into docs

Ian Horrocks: Seems reasonable to split it up into docs

18:07:37 <bcuencagrau> Subtopic: Issue 104

3.3. ISSUE-104

18:07:48 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We could move on to 104

Ian Horrocks: We could move on to 104

18:08:12 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:08:16 <bcuencagrau> IanH: this has been here for a while

Ian Horrocks: this has been here for a while

18:08:24 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:08:24 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

18:08:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:08:30 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

18:08:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:08:41 <IanH> ack m_schnei

Ian Horrocks: ack m_schnei

18:09:04 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: in the OWL 1 spec there was a list of URIs which was disallowed

Michael Schneider: in the OWL 1 spec there was a list of URIs which was disallowed

18:09:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:09:57 <bcuencagrau> mschnei: For example, should we allowed for rdf:List?

Michael Schneider: For example, should we allowed for rdf:List?

18:09:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:10:38 <bcuencagrau> m_schnei: The other issue is the use of reification vocabulary

Michael Schneider: The other issue is the use of reification vocabulary

18:10:56 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:08 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:11:08 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

18:11:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:11:35 <bcuencagrau> IanH: I do not see the point for using the reification vocabulary. There could be an argument for the List vocabulary

Ian Horrocks: I do not see the point for using the reification vocabulary. There could be an argument for the List vocabulary

18:11:37 <m_schnei> this is simply a (slight?) backwards compatibility issue

Michael Schneider: this is simply a (slight?) backwards compatibility issue

18:12:05 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:12:05 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

18:12:15 <bcuencagrau> IanH: It seems that we may be ready to resolve the issue

Ian Horrocks: It seems that we may be ready to resolve the issue

18:12:40 <pfps> +1 to break this compatability

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to break this compatability

18:12:48 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:12:48 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

18:13:19 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We propose to close this issue but acknowledging that there is a backwards compatibility issue

Ian Horrocks: We propose to close this issue but acknowledging that there is a backwards compatibility issue

18:13:56 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:13:56 <Zakim> m_schnei should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should no longer be muted

18:15:00 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:15:00 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

18:15:10 <bcuencagrau> IanH: possibly resolve by taking no action

Ian Horrocks: possibly resolve by taking no action

18:15:17 <IanH> Subsubtopic: Strawpoll on resolving issue-104
3.3.1. Strawpoll on resolving ISSUE-104
18:15:18 <IanH> STRAWPOLL: Resolve ISSUE-104 by taking no action

STRAWPOLL: Resolve ISSUE-104 by taking no action

18:15:23 <pfps> +1 to no action and thus break compatability

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to no action and thus break compatability

18:15:28 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

18:15:29 <m_schnei> actually, there *is* disallowed vocabulary in the Functional Spec by listing different namespaces

Michael Schneider: actually, there *is* disallowed vocabulary in the Functional Spec by listing different namespaces

18:15:30 <Rinke> +!

Rinke Hoekstra: +!

18:15:32 <msmith> +1

Mike Smith: +1

18:15:34 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:15:35 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:15:37 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

18:15:37 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

18:15:44 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

18:15:45 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:15:46 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

18:16:38 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We should skip 118

Ian Horrocks: We should skip 118

18:16:49 <Zhe1> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:16:50 <bcuencagrau> Subtopic: Issue 129

3.4. ISSUE-129

18:17:07 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Issue 129 is related to the previous one

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-129 is related to the previous one

18:17:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:17:35 <pfps> no change means disallow list vocabulary

Peter Patel-Schneider: no change means disallow list vocabulary

18:17:44 <bcuencagrau> IanH: if we used List vocabulary in OWL 2 DL, this would be in conflict with our proposal

Ian Horrocks: if we used List vocabulary in OWL 2 DL, this would be in conflict with our proposal

18:17:55 <bcuencagrau> IanH: in issue 104

Ian Horrocks: in ISSUE-104

18:17:58 <m_schnei> m_schnei: disallowing xsd: as a whole is not different from disallowing rdfs: because the Functional spec explicitly allows the annotation properties from RDFS (kind of overwriting disallowing the whole namespace)

Michael Schneider: disallowing xsd: as a whole is not different from disallowing rdfs: because the Functional spec explicitly allows the annotation properties from RDFS (kind of overwriting disallowing the whole namespace) [ Scribe Assist by Michael Schneider ]

18:18:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:15 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Therefore our proposal for resolving 129 implies a proposal to resolve 104

Ian Horrocks: Therefore our proposal for resolving 129 implies a proposal to resolve 104

18:18:17 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:18:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:24 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:18:25 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

18:18:25 <pfps> out damned list :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: out damned list :-)

18:18:50 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:18:50 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

18:19:06 <bcuencagrau> IanH: it is not a very active issue

Ian Horrocks: it is not a very active issue

18:19:08 <msmith> I believe this issue lost some steam when object/data property punning left

Mike Smith: I believe this issue lost some steam when object/data property punning left

18:19:21 <MarkusK> yes, msmith is right

Markus Krötzsch: yes, msmith is right

18:19:23 <bcuencagrau> IanH: Strawpoll on this one

Ian Horrocks: Strawpoll on this one

18:19:28 <Rinke> there's a thread starting at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0164.html

Rinke Hoekstra: there's a thread starting at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008May/0164.html

18:19:31 <IanH> Subsubtopic: Strawpoll on resolving issue-129
3.4.1. Strawpoll on resolving ISSUE-129
18:19:30 <IanH> STRAWPOLL: Resolve ISSUE-129 by taking no action

STRAWPOLL: Resolve ISSUE-129 by taking no action

18:19:59 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1

18:20:06 <bcuencagrau> +1

+1

18:20:09 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1

18:20:13 <IanH> +1

Ian Horrocks: +1

18:20:13 <JeffP> +1

Jeff Pan: +1

18:20:14 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

18:20:20 <pfps> +1 to letting lists dangle

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to letting lists dangle

18:20:20 <Zhe1> +1

Zhe Wu: +1

18:20:23 <ratnesh> +1

Ratnesh Sahay: +1

18:20:29 <baojie> 0 not 100% clear

Jie Bao: 0 not 100% clear

18:20:31 <Rinke> (rdf lists don't add much)

Rinke Hoekstra: (rdf lists don't add much)

18:20:34 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1

18:21:27 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+

18:21:32 <baojie> +1

Jie Bao: +1

18:21:40 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q-

18:21:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:07 <bcuencagrau> IanH: We are done!!

Ian Horrocks: We are done!!

18:22:16 <bcuencagrau> IanH: additional business?

Ian Horrocks: additional business?

18:22:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:23 <m_schnei> jie, use of the rdf:List vocabulary was already disallowed in OWL 1 DL, so nothing changes here

Michael Schneider: jie, use of the rdf:List vocabulary was already disallowed in OWL 1 DL, so nothing changes here

18:22:32 <pfps> we *could* knock of rich annotations :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: we *could* knock of rich annotations :-)

18:22:36 <bcuencagrau> IanH: no additional business

Ian Horrocks: no additional business

18:22:47 <JeffP> bye

Jeff Pan: bye

18:22:47 <Zhe1> thanks.

Zhe Wu: thanks.

18:22:48 <Rinke> thanks, bye!

Rinke Hoekstra: thanks, bye!

18:22:49 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, unmute me

Zakim, unmute me

18:22:49 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should no longer be muted

18:22:51 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

18:22:52 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

18:22:52 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

18:22:52 <ratnesh> bye

Ratnesh Sahay: bye

18:22:53 <Zakim> -ratnesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -ratnesh

18:22:53 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP

18:22:54 <m_schnei> bye

Michael Schneider: bye

18:22:54 <Zakim> -baojie

Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie

18:22:54 <Zakim> -MarkusK

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK

18:22:59 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke

18:23:07 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider

Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider

18:23:12 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei

18:23:20 <Zakim> -Ian_Horrocks

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ian_Horrocks

18:23:25 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau

Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau

18:23:26 <Zakim> SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()1:00PM has ended


This revision (#2) generated 2008-08-08 15:05:50 UTC by 'ihorrock2', comments: None