HTML Issue Tracking Teleconference

6 Dec 2007



ChrisWilson, DaveSinger, GregoryRosmaita, MikeSmith, MonikaTrebo


Review of open issues and actions


<trackbot-ng> ACTION-16 -- Dan Connolly to put question in issue-15: does the working group want to do <canvas> -- due 2007-11-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/16

<ChrisWilson> TrackbotNG, close Action-16

<ChrisWilson> trackbot-ng, close action-16

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-16 put question in issue-15: does the working group want to do <canvas> closed

<ChrisWilson> thanks


<trackbot-ng> ACTION-24 -- Gregory Rosmaita to suggest accessibility improvement for "Big issue" marker -- due 2007-11-30 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/24

[skipping ACTION-24 for now until OedipusWrecked shows up]


<trackbot-ng> ACTION-25 -- Dan Connolly to review offline-webapps (proxy for Sam Ruby) -- due 2007-11-29 -- PENDINGREVIEW

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/25

ChrisWilson: Sam completed his review. So this action is done.

<ChrisWilson> trackbot-ng, close action-25

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-25 review offline-webapps (proxy for Sam Ruby) closed

<ChrisWilson> extending Action-11 on Dan until next week.


<trackbot-ng> ACTION-11 -- Dan Connolly to show how <div aria="something"> works with URI based extensibility -- due 2007-12-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/11

[note that I think DanC did spend some time yesterday on ACTION-11 but not sure what has been done]

<ChrisWilson> ACTION-27?

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-27 -- Dan Connolly to draft a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with microformats.org regarding @rel values -- due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/27

<ChrisWilson> extending...

I know nothing of status on that issue.

<dsinger> help. can someone mute their microphone when they are next to the washing machine?

<ChrisWilson> action-31?

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-31 -- Dan Connolly to see that Singer's summary makes it to the SJC/Dec W3C video workshop, possibly by confirming Singer's attendance -- due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/31

dsinger: I won't be at the video workshop, will be in Japan, other Apple rep will be there.

dsinger: I sent info to Philippe LH and to Rigo of W3C

<ChrisWilson> ACTION-32?

<trackbot-ng> ACTION-32 -- Michael(tm) Smith to change the product name of "HTML 5 authoring guidelines" in the tracker to something else, eventually -- due 2007-12-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/32

<ChrisWilson> was there a really short push to change the name in the product?

<ChrisWilson> (I mean in the issue tracker, not in the document name)

ChrisWilson, no not high priority

<ChrisWilson> I'm looking at the issues discussed over the last week to see if there's anything high-pri

<ChrisWilson> Other than ACTION-24, assigned to Gregory, I think we're done with review for the day.


<trackbot-ng> ISSUE-24 -- Delete "should support Ogg" clause before publishing FPWD? -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/24

dsinger: there is general consensus that we should ideally have a recommended format, but don't have consensus on what... so better to have a placeholder for now

<ChrisWilson> I'm happy to put Dave's placeholder into the spec for now.

ChrisWilson: I agree we have not reached a consensus on this

dsinger: we need W3C staff (PLH and Rigo) to advise on how to move forward with this

<ChrisWilson> Created action 39 to track


<trackbot-ng> ACTION-39 -- Dan Connolly to chairs to discuss action on video/audo codec and container with Philippe et al post the video workshop -- due 2007-12-20 -- OPEN

<trackbot-ng> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/39

<ChrisWilson> I think we've reached consensus that the placeholder for video/audio should be used until we reach consensus, post-workshop.

<oedipus> i just got back to the laptop -- let me find the phone

<Lachy> oedipus, regarding the accessibility of the Big Issue markers, your mail talked about the accessibility of CSS generated contnet. However, the Big Issue markers are inserted into the page with JavaScript, so screen readers should be able to read them correctly

<Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say re: ACTION-24 that he was surprised by hixie's reply about editors' drafts not reflecting changes from draft to draft using INS and DEL -- aren't

oedipus - no, editor's drafts do not necessarily need to use INS and DEL or anything else to show changes

oedipus: normal issues an Big Issue are styled the same

<dsinger> but I think that Ian no longer knows what the semantic difference is either...

oedipus: that's the problem

<Lachy> The specific changes to the spec can be monitered using SVN. Using <ins> and <del> on a draft that changes so much is way too much work

<dsinger> we'd need a definition of what makes an issue "big" ... and ...

<Lachy> oedipus, normal issues and big issues are actually styled differently

<dsinger> we'd need to go through all the issues and make sure that they are all correctly classified

<Lachy> they just share some common styles

<Hixie> i'm here

<Hixie> wassup

Hixie - please see comments from oedipus above

<ChrisWilson> we're discussing INS/DEL

<ChrisWilson> and comment from Lachy

<Hixie> the editor's drafts just happen every time i generate the spec, which can be multiple times a day... i'm not sure what use the ins/del markup would be

<Hixie> (when would i remove them?)

<ChrisWilson> WDs?

<Hixie> there's a number of ways of tracking changes to the spec, including diff e-mails, subversion and cvs logs and diffs, twitter messages for non-editorial changes, and a web page that lets you filter the changes to just show what matters to you

<Hixie> ChrisWilson: well since we haven't had a single WD yet presumably that would be one big <ins> element covering the whole spec

<Hixie> ChrisWilson: i'm quite happy for us to generate html-based diffs between WDs if we publish frequent WDs, which i agree we should

<hober> All of those existing mechanisms have the advantage that they don't require Hixie's editing behavior to radically change.

<hober> Updating ins/dels on each edit adds significant editing overhead for what benefit, given the existing tools?

<Hixie> well if i were to add ins/del markup, i certainly wouldn't do it manually. i'd have to find some sort of tool to do it automatically.

<hober> s/find/write/, most likely

<Hixie> i don't have the bandwidth to write a diffing tool :-(

oedipus: the current mechanisms for following changes to the spec need to be linked to more prominently on the WG home page

<Hixie> but i'd happily use whatever tool people provided

<Hixie> (the same way as i happily embedded the spec splitter tool and the spec to pdf convertor tool and the pubrules tool into my pipeline)

<Hixie> so much for that

<Hixie> :-/

<scribe> ACTION: Michael(tm) to add links on HTML WG to mechanism for watching changes to the HTML5 spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/07-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-40 - Add links on HTML WG to mechanism for watching changes to the HTML5 spec [on Michael(tm) Smith - due 2007-12-14].

any additional business for today's call?

<Philip> http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/diff/ etc?

<ChrisWilson> hmm. Yeah, that might work, I suppose.

<Hixie> try it

<Hixie> :-)

<ChrisWilson> (I was asking for Gregory, not for me)

oedipus: PF / Al Gilman will plan to take "aria-" proposal to Hypertext CG
... that is consensus of PF WG
... Jim Allen wanted me to remind that HTML WG that since what they do is UA conformance, they would like to assist in any way possible with UA conformance section of HTML5 spec
... that is UAWG

<Hixie> (actually if anyone does want me to add some sort of html diffing to the pipeline, what would be really useful would be if they could provide me with a web service where i could upload two html files and get back an html file with the diffs)

Hixie - we now have such a tool

will get the URL for you

<Hixie> (that's basically how the pubrules and spec splitting things happen -- i have a web service on a separate computer on the internet that takes those two files and returns the files to upload)

<Hixie> MikeSmith: cool

oedipus: UAWG realizes it needs to work to get their concerns addressed by trying whenever possible to get accessibility features/considerations into core specs

<ChrisWilson> other issues/topics?

<ChrisWilson> move to adjourn?

<ChrisWilson> thanks all

[meeting adjourned]

<ChrisWilson> adjourned

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Michael(tm) to add links on HTML WG to mechanism for watching changes to the HTML5 spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/07-html-wg-minutes.html#action01]