RDFa Task Force

-> previous 2007-11-15

Update on CURIE spec

Shane: the XHTML2 WG is producing a CURIE spec independently
... there was an objection to the XHTML2 WG publishing FPWD of another spec because it inlined CURIE normatively
... so we decided to update the CURIE WD
... this doesn't impact RDFa-syntax for the moment
... just notice that XHTML2 WG is pushing forward CURIE
... so long as the content [between RDFa-syntax and CURIE WD] is identical, I don't think we have a problem
... it would be an editorial change to refer normatively to a separate CURIE WD
... this TF has said it does not want to be dependent on a separate CURIE spec
... the TAG has formal comments on CURIE
... I've added to the intro in the current CURIE editor's draft

Ben: one of the sticking points seemed to be what to do if an attribute could contain either URI or CURIE

Shane: yes, and we don't want to break legacy markup
... another concern was about the use of namespaces as prefix mechanisms
... I think we have a good story there

Follow-your-Nose

Shane: in an XHTML2 WG call yesterday the question came up ...
... one user discovered it was hard to find the vocabularies [from a document]

Manu: that's a document usability concern

Ben: but it's also philosophical; we don't want to say "these are all the vocabularies you can use"

Shane: but the namespace URIs we use in the example don't give readable HTML documents
... maybe FOAF redirects, but vCard and geotagging don't
... Ralph pointed me at the Recipes document
... this made the complainer happy
... so getting the examples in the Primer to be good examples [would help]

Manu: we need a process for cleaning up the examples
... CreativeCommons namespace is a really good example of how to do this right
... it's one of the few you can actually use in a Web browser to get a human-readable page back
... common complaint from microformats community is that there aren't human-readable pages at the [RDFa] vocab URIs

Ben: both FOAF and Dublin Core do redirect to English specifications
... hmm. right now Dublin Core doesn't redirect

ACTION: Ralph followup with Dublin Core on what's going on with their namespace URI [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

Shane: second part of follow-your-nose is whether @profile is optional or not
... there should be an announcement mechanism
... DOCTYPE doesn't work because none of the XML parsers give you back the doctype

Ben: one of the requirements for RDFa was that people write RDFa in widgets where they don't control the head of the document
... I'm happy to have @profile but reluctant to say that absence of @profile says you shouldn't try to parse RDFa

Ralph: architectural issue is whether a document instance is self-documenting
... DOCTYPE or @profile are both mechanism to make self-documenting

<ShaneM> some attributes trigger triple generation

Ben: we should leave a grey area where a document that does not have either DOCTYPE or @profile can still be parsed for triples

ACTION: Ben to respond to comment on follow-your-nose [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

-> Best Practices Issue: RDF Format Discovery [Sean Palmer]

Shane: responding to Sean Palmer is Ben's action

Ralph: yes, so long as it's the case that there is no use of the RDFa attributes that would NOT generate triples; i.e. no accidental use
... and I think this is currently the case

Action Review

-> Action summary from last meeting

ACTION: Ben check that browsers do preserve whitespace in attribute values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

-> action on white-space preservation in attributes [Ben]

Shane: I thought this had to do with _content_, not attribute values
... the XML spec is very clear on the handling of attribute values, though browsers may currently implement incorrectly

Ben: we resolved the question w.r.t. content
... and we noted the possibility that attributes might be a way to force whitespace preservation if the author needed it

Ben: I need to re-test using the XML declaration

Ben: if XML mode does canonicalization then our hand is forced

ACTION: Ben followup with Fabien on getting his RDFa GRDDL transform transferred to W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: [DONE] Michael check that HTML spec says to preserve whitespace in attribute values [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/11/15-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

-> Michael's report on whitespace preservation

ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on rdfa.info [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

[Shane reminds us of the RDFa namespace/profile URI http://www.w3.org/ns/rdfa/

@instanceof

Ben: I think Mark's proposal is better, so I'm withdrawing mine

Manu: trel/trev was in case we couldn't agree
... Mark's proposal is better than trel/trev

Ben: Mark makes strong arguments about why this should work
... it's more consistent w.r.t. chaining
... with hanging @rel it covers the otheruse cases

-> Understanding 'chaining' [Mark 2007-11-15]

Ben: can't vote today, given regrets, but let's start revising test cases and testing parsers
... let's try to resolve this next week

<ShaneM> Question: are people comfortable adding a conformance requirement that documents MUST have the XML PI <? xml ... >

Manu: I posted two test cases that apply to the new proposal
... these address hanging @rel

Ben: I advocate more tests cases where each is simple rather than fewer complicated tests
... more tests is Good

-> Two new test cases needed? [Manu]

<Simone> When we have test cases I can also mail all implementors to support chaining, so also test cases can be used for exaplmes for people who'll write RDFa :)

ACTION: Manu to put together set of test cases for hanging @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

Manu: the on-hold tests deal with @instanceof

-> On hold test cases [Manu]

ACTION: Manu to add test cases for @instanceof combined with hanging @rel [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/12/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

Ben: we have agreement from SWD WG reviewers to start review of new Syntax doc before holidays

Shane: Last Call before end of year?

Ben: unlikely, given holidays and review time
... but I'd like to start Last Call immediately in the new year

Ben: Ivan, Elias, and I submitted an RDFa tutorial proposal for WWW2008 and it was accepted
... Mark wasn't sure if he'd be going to Beijing, so he said he'd help with content but wouldn't be part of the proposal

Ben: next meeting we'll talk about test cases and vote on @instanceof