XML Processing Model WG

27 Sep 2007


See also: IRC log


Norm, Paul, Rui, Alessandro, Murray, Mohamed
Michael, Richard, Henry



Date: 27 September 2007

number Meeting: 85, T-minus 6 weeks

<scribe> Scribe: Norm

<scribe> ScribeNick: Norm

On the agenda already, MSM

<avernet> zakiim, ? is avernet

Accept this agenda?

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/27-agenda


Accept minutes from the previous meeting?

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/13-minutes

-> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/13-minutes


Next meeting: telcon 4 October 2007

Murray gives regrets.

Review of XSLT streaming specifications

Mohamed: It's the requirements document that's ready for review.

Murray will take a look.

Norm: Thanks, Murray.


-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0160.html

Comments list: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/lastcall/comments.html

<MoZ> here is the last requirements for XSLT Streaming http://www.w3.org/mid/46F97ED6.90908@u-turnmediagroup.com

Norm wonders what the intended semantics of the "all" option were.

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to investigate [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01]

Scope of step types

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0155.html

Norm: I think we only meant for types declared in the pipeline and in the imported libraries, not recursively.

General agreement.

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to clarify [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02]

Is a conformant processor supposed to raise xml:id or xml:base errors

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0149.html

Mohamed: We allow xml:base and xml:id everywhere in the pipeline document, so what is the processor supposed to do if there are xml:id or xml:base errors.

Norm: I understand xml:id errors, but what are xml:base errors?

Mohamed: I was thinking of bad characters or bad URIs.

Norm: I'm of two minds.

Paul: If it doesn't have anything to do with the pipeline, I don't see why we should give errors for it.

Norm: This is about xml:id attributes *in the pipeline*

Paul: This is a metaissue, it's the pipeline parser that will see the errors.

Norm: I'm not inclined to make it a fatal error.

Murray: Do we use the xml:ids?

Norm: No.
... Anyone want more aggressive rules in XProc?


Wrapping of nodes into a document

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0148.html

<alexmilowski> BTW, the 'all' option means every element gets an xml:base attribute

Norm: So we should say "element, processing-instruction, or document nodes", yes?

Mohamed: That would be half the question, but the other half would be to say on the select that only nodes of certain types will be wrapped as document nodes.

Norm: So we need to make it clear that what is selected can be a document.

Murray: It's clear to me that what appears on any output must be a document. A wrapper around a bunch of attributes is not a document.
... We've already established the rules, so we just need to clarify it.

Alessandro: It could be one document or a sequence of documents.

Norm: But I think Murray is right, we just need to clarify.

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to clarify [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03]

<input> for <pipeline>

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0146.html

Norm: Richard doesn't think that p:input on pipeline should have a binding.
... But I think we intended the binding to be the default if no external binding was given.

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to follow up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04]

Scope of stpe names

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0139.html

<MoZ> here : http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0142.html

Norm: I'm content with Richard's editorial suggestion, anyone disagree?


-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0133.html

Norm: I think this got resovled in the thread

No one disagrees.

pipeline library

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-wg/2007Sep/0143.html

Norm: So the question is, if you hand a pipeline *library* to a processor should it run a particular pipeline.
... Seems to me that the implementation should take an option to specify which library

Rui: It's like make or ant, defaulting to a particular target.

Murray: But we're not recreating Make here

Rui: Some of the use cases are very similar

Murray: I seem to recall having this discussion; we said you can run a pipeline by name; it feels wrong to run a library.

Norm: I think the Make/ant use case is a little bit compelling

Norm muses out loud about running the first pipeline

Murray: If we're going to go down this road, I think we should provide explicit syntax.

Norm: Do we want to provide explicit syntax for this?

Alessandro: I'm not moved; I see why Make and ant do it, it doesn't seem like it's a very large distinction between a Makefile and a library that would be used; but we're having this distinction in XProc.
... So it makes sense to me that what you run is a pipeline not a library.

Rui: You can run a jar file if the manifest gives a default class.

<alexmilowski> +1

Murray: I don't think we should do this as an afterthought; and I don't think we should do this.
... It seems like creeping featurism.

Question: should we add a feature to establish the default pipeline in a pipeline-library?

Y: 2; N: 6 (3 concur)

Norm: I don't see support for it. Anyone object to leaving it out of V1?

Murray wonders what Richard and Henry would have said. Norm does too, for that matter.

Saxonica comments, sections 1 and 2

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2007Sep/0022.html

Norm: I'm inclined to agree with his first comment.
... On his second, we run afoul of starting names with "xml".

Murray: I thought we wanted all the verbs to start with "validate".

Norm: Oh, you're right, this way they sort together.

Alex: So how about validate-with-...

<ruilopes> p:validate-with-*

Norm: Seems to me we have too choices; we could say "Oh, c'mon Mike..." or we could change them.

Alessandro: I think validate-with would be clearer.

<MoZ> +1 for validate-with-

Murray: What about just "validate" and peek at the input?

Alex: We decided we didn't want that.

Norm: Anyone object to renaming them validate-with?

<alexmilowski> validate-via-the-language-known-as-xml-schema


<scribe> ACTION: Norm to put "parameters as strings" on next week's agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action05]

Alex: What about point 8?

Murray: Do we need to have a section that makes our vagueness more explicit.

<alexmilowski> "Infoset Processing

<alexmilowski> At a minimum, an XML document is represented and manipulated as an XML Information Set. The use of supersets, augmented information sets, or data models that can be represented or conceptualized as information sets should be allowed, and in some instances, encouraged (e.g. for the XPath 2.0 Data Model).

<alexmilowski> "

<alexmilowski> We say that in our requirements document.

Norm: What's now in 2.6.1 probably needs to be further up in the document

Alex: I think we need to say something explicit about being based on the Infoset

Murray: I think what goes between the steps is a putative XML document. It could be an infoset, it could be an XDM, it could be an XPath 1.0 NodeSet, it could be any number of different things. And it depends on your implementation how you're going to do that.
... We want you to bear in mind however, that it is something that could be mapped into an XML document. We're talking about a theoretical, or putative, document.

Alex: That's what using infoset would give us.

Norm: I think what we have in 2.6.1 is probably good enough, we should just move it up.

<scribe> ACTION: Norm to ask Mike if he thinks that might be good enough. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action06]

Any other business



Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Norm to ask Mike if he thinks that might be good enough. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to clarify [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to clarify [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to follow up. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to investigate [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Norm to put "parameters as strings" on next week's agenda [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html#action05]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/09/27 15:58:10 $

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This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/library/pipeline-library/
Found Scribe: Norm
Inferring ScribeNick: Norm
Found ScribeNick: Norm
Default Present: Norm, PGrosso, [IPcaller], ruilopes, avernet, Murray_Maloney, MoZ, Andrew, Alex_Milowski
Present: Norm Paul Rui Alessandro Murray Mohamed
Regrets: Michael Richard Henry
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2007/09/27-agenda
Found Date: 27 Sep 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/27-xproc-minutes.html
People with action items: norm

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