<scribe> Scribe: JR

1. review action items

JA: We should refer to WCAG 2.0 in UAAG 2.0

GR: Agreed

JR: Agreed

Provide text view (P1)

KF: Asks if this is still needed at P1

GR: This is the last fall back.

JR: And prob a bad fallback since Web 2.0 stuff means source contains almost nothing

GR: Another use case is to allow user style sheet ot be created for a page

<scribe> ACTION: GR to Flesh out requirements of text view for 2.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action01]

GR: MSIE has option to set preferred text viewer

CL: Still want markup?

GR: Yes, marked up content

JA: Maybe we need to be more clear that we are not asking for interpretted text view

Interpretted text view = what lynx or HPR did

CL: Is there a text view extension for Firefox?

GR: Two step, view source in browser chrome then save as plain text (with html ext).

JA: Defer the rest of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0054.html till next week.

Proposal to combine 3.2 and 3.3

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0048.html

JA: "Determinitically" was new term...JA suggested "Programmatically Determinable"

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0053.html

GR: In HTMLWG there is a debate between people who support OBJECT and people supporting VIDEO, AUDIO, etc
... Some people like discrete because it has timing etc
... Some people want to just use SMIL

JA: Issue we've had is that there are many different ways to do animated stuff

JR: Does it really make a diff. UA decided what renders what.

<AllanJ> JR: could the UA to decide whether to support video natively or pass off to external player

GR: Really problem is no backplane access to OS's audio
... Also inteded for youtube scenario, videos have their own UI embedded in page
... We discussed on HTML WG...and there was misunderstanding about metadata....since many of the elements are only associated visually

JR, GR: Clarify that the problem is inaccessible flash - since video controls are in the object

JA: So we can toggle JS on off,
... Flash can't be toggled without screen readers
... ActiveX

GR: Inline frames can be toggled with...
... should be in User Agent

JA: We drifted off twoards 3.4 - toggle scripts

CL: Scripts can do all sorts of thign

JA: I see this is a global audio setting

CL: Are you going to qulalify this according to how its generated?

JA: Not sure.
... Always have issue that UA knows about some things but not others

CL: Right and knows even less about JS
... OK but it's one thing to turn off object element...but Javascript can't know what its doing
... That's why scripts are separate

JA: So maybe we need to be clear here - see 3.4 for script generated things
... Just checking normative inclusion...in UAAG 1.0....covers scripts.

CL: Yes but there is an exclusion for things that can't be identified.
... Only way they coould in scripts is if ARIArole has been added

GR: THis is an argument for object - since can control things more precisely

CL: There is an ARIA role for animation
... There;s also MARQUIS

JA, JR: Placeholders appear to be required...under normative inclusions

CL: They don't use that word "placeholder"

JA: OK so maybe we need to reword #4

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Reword normative inclusion #4 in Peter's proposal to be clear about placeholders [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action02]

JR: What about background audio placeholders?

GR: Propose to render alt instead

JR: Seems a bit odd to change rendering of page

CL: #1 and #2 seem not to require placeholders
... So would a placeholder have to be an interactive object?

JA: Yes

CL: OK because that's not what it says now

JR: Another wrinkle is that without downloading the object, the dimensions might not be known

CL: So it's like when Images turned off

JA: Or maybe a text link
... OK we combined them ok but found more issues.

<scribe> ACTION: JR to Updated version of PP's proposal taking into account Aug. 9 discussion re: actionable placeholders [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action03]

JA: And just as a thought as we do these...maybe inclusions exclusions..should be in requirements

CL: So sufficient techniques are normative?

JA: No

CL: So why first?

JA: Don't know
... oops...Sufficient techniques are normative

JR: Suggest at some point dumping all inclusion exclusion text into success criteria

JA: discusses new "bucket" elements in HTML5 eg. FIGURE can contain IMAGE, AUDIO, CAPTION

GR: Yes but remember HTML5 is all up for review
... So all sections are now being reviewed
... Now is the time to get things into HTML5

All: Discussion ow ways to make sure UA group has relatively up to date info on ARIA

GR: Also XHTML access module is being recommended to HTML5

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Found Scribe: JR
Inferring ScribeNick: JR
Default Present: Jim_Allan, JR, Gregory_Rosmaita, cklaws
Present: Jim_Allan JR Gregory_Rosmaita cklaws

WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Peter, Parente)
Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list,
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Regrets: Kelly Ford
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0051.html
Got date from IRC log name: 9 Aug 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html
People with action items: gr jr

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