See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: JR
JA: We should refer to WCAG 2.0 in UAAG 2.0
KF: Asks if this is still needed at P1
GR: This is the last fall back.
JR: And prob a bad fallback since Web 2.0 stuff means source contains almost nothing
GR: Another use case is to allow user style sheet ot be created for a page
<scribe> ACTION: GR to Flesh out requirements of text view for 2.2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action01]
GR: MSIE has option to set preferred text viewer
CL: Still want markup?
GR: Yes, marked up content
JA: Maybe we need to be more clear that we are not asking for interpretted text view
Interpretted text view = what lynx or HPR did
CL: Is there a text view extension for Firefox?
GR: Two step, view source in browser chrome then save as plain text (with html ext).
JA: Defer the rest of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0054.html till next week.
JA: "Determinitically" was new term...JA suggested "Programmatically Determinable"
GR: In HTMLWG there is a debate
between people who support OBJECT and people supporting VIDEO,
... Some people like discrete because it has timing etc
... Some people want to just use SMIL
JA: Issue we've had is that there are many different ways to do animated stuff
JR: Does it really make a diff. UA decided what renders what.
<AllanJ> JR: could the UA to decide whether to support video natively or pass off to external player
GR: Really problem is no
backplane access to OS's audio
... Also inteded for youtube scenario, videos have their own UI embedded in page
... We discussed on HTML WG...and there was misunderstanding about metadata....since many of the elements are only associated visually
JR, GR: Clarify that the problem is inaccessible flash - since video controls are in the object
JA: So we can toggle JS on
... Flash can't be toggled without screen readers
GR: Inline frames can be toggled
... should be in User Agent
JA: We drifted off twoards 3.4 - toggle scripts
CL: Scripts can do all sorts of thign
JA: I see this is a global audio setting
CL: Are you going to qulalify this according to how its generated?
JA: Not sure.
... Always have issue that UA knows about some things but not others
CL: Right and knows even less
... That's why scripts are separate
JA: So maybe we need to be clear
here - see 3.4 for script generated things
... Just checking normative inclusion...in UAAG 1.0....covers scripts.
CL: Yes but there is an exclusion
for things that can't be identified.
... Only way they coould in scripts is if ARIArole has been added
GR: THis is an argument for object - since can control things more precisely
CL: There is an ARIA role for
... There;s also MARQUIS
JA, JR: Placeholders appear to be required...under normative inclusions
CL: They don't use that word "placeholder"
JA: OK so maybe we need to reword #4
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Reword normative inclusion #4 in Peter's proposal to be clear about placeholders [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action02]
JR: What about background audio placeholders?
GR: Propose to render alt instead
JR: Seems a bit odd to change rendering of page
CL: #1 and #2 seem not to require
... So would a placeholder have to be an interactive object?
CL: OK because that's not what it says now
JR: Another wrinkle is that without downloading the object, the dimensions might not be known
CL: So it's like when Images turned off
JA: Or maybe a text link
... OK we combined them ok but found more issues.
<scribe> ACTION: JR to Updated version of PP's proposal taking into account Aug. 9 discussion re: actionable placeholders [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html#action03]
JA: And just as a thought as we do these...maybe inclusions exclusions..should be in requirements
CL: So sufficient techniques are normative?
CL: So why first?
JA: Don't know
... oops...Sufficient techniques are normative
JR: Suggest at some point dumping all inclusion exclusion text into success criteria
JA: discusses new "bucket" elements in HTML5 eg. FIGURE can contain IMAGE, AUDIO, CAPTION
GR: Yes but remember HTML5 is all
up for review
... So all sections are now being reviewed
... Now is the time to get things into HTML5
All: Discussion ow ways to make sure UA group has relatively up to date info on ARIA
GR: Also XHTML access module is being recommended to HTML5
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: JR Inferring ScribeNick: JR Default Present: Jim_Allan, JR, Gregory_Rosmaita, cklaws Present: Jim_Allan JR Gregory_Rosmaita cklaws WARNING: Replacing previous Regrets list. (Old list: Peter, Parente) Use 'Regrets+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Regrets+ Kelly, Ford Regrets: Kelly Ford Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2007JulSep/0051.html Got date from IRC log name: 9 Aug 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/08/09-ua-minutes.html People with action items: gr jr WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]