See also: IRC log
<scribe> scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita
<scribe> scribenick: oedipus
Becky: if say right-left arrow
with menu posted -- does that mean drop down? perhaps is
covered (read from draft); with any level it would be same,
right?
... spacebar opens actionable item -- exposes or
executes?
... when have focus on menu item, pressing enter will execute
the menu action
GJR: XHTML2 group interested in 3 states: give focus, hang-fire (inspect), and fire
Becky: nested menus -- not a drop-down menu -- or rather is but vertical instead of horizontal
AG: how do you integrate abstract tree behavior
Becky: right need both
AlG: use menu or menubar
consistently should be in best prActices
... if works like menubar, should follow menu keyboard
conventions
Becky: ok
<scribe> ACTION: Becky - post to xtech [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/27-wai-xtech-minutes.html#action01]
Don: checkboxes?
Becky: can do without proposal; should decide next one before telecon concludes so can discuss next meeting
Chris: which keys are available by script events if running IE on Windows with JAWS or Window-Eyes?
GJR: there is a passthrough key in most screen readers
AlG: gregory explained how to get
through screen-reader, but doesn't mean can get to application
or script
... highly educated best-guess at keybindings that will work
without conflict; some will require alternate methods; separate
line of development around reengineering accesskey -- poster
child for fuzzy implementatino and definition; need to be some
kind of ARIA approach to getting raw materials in to bind
to
<scribe> DonE: beginning to build javascript applications for applications; doing tree views, tab interfaces, etc.; not gracefully handled by at
AlG: grep accessibility lists (w3c-wai-ua@w3.org) for accesskey
GJR: start with existing keybindings defined by devs
AlG: angle in action item to SAP
to come up with working input tokenizer (text entry field with
hidden grammar to check contents of text entry field) -- they
have a validate action -- user can request it -- trick is
hotkey in text edit mode also next to a button performing same
fucntionality; style guide - anything give keybinding to
somewhere there is an isolated action that could be
pre-validated -- need right association between label on button
and lab
... need second level in overall methodology
Chris: attempted to take WinXP, MSIE7 and JAWS to ascertain what keys are already mapped -- short list; check against mozilla, even less; add window-eyes and you're left with nothing
AlG: widget roles for keyboard access valuable because so much keybindings in AT
Chris: handle elsewhere?
AlG: perceive problem, use cases
will get others to solve problem; need test interaction and
usability
... part of the solution -- can machine follow from edit box
with hotkey to the label that triggers the same event; stress
in programming style level
Chris: just wanted to ensure issue on table
AlG: fact that have an issue is clear; what we need is a solution, which Becky is working on
Becky: going to come into conflicts; how does user move focus from rich text editor to toolbar then back to rich text editor; can't make tabbable, will have to assign a key; will come up with proposal for dojo and submit to DHTML for consideration
<scribe> DonE: IE7 versus IE6 -- tabindex of positive number to DIV or SPAN to get focus -- any difference between IE6 and IE7?
Becky: not had to do anything different for IE6 and IE7
AlG: if have test case, bring up to mark silvey -- microsoft rep to PF;
Don: some works in IE6 some in IE7, in our experience
Becky: checkboxes have checked, unchecked - space is trigger
AlG: how many systems support that?
Becky: have to check; for radio buttons, enter isn't supported; checkboxes enter and space
GJR: tri-state for checkbox;
Becky: isn't it part of group? what is use case
AlG: software install -- summary install -- get checkboxes in advanced mode, can partially check options
<scribe> DonE: how do you trigger a partially checked check?
Becky: only a programmatic state?
AlG: if activate custom, enter
dialog; if use to check and uncheck, will push a partial?
... if using WAI ARIA states on checkbox, can have partial
value
<scribe> DonE: ARIA states checked unchecked partially checked -- question is, which is child of other
Becky: IE7 only supports 2
options
... don't use key if grouped - go from one to another
AlG: caret in edit box, hit enter and submitted form, rather than making newline in text field
Becky: how to do that without a save or cancel button is still unknown
Chris: checked or unchecked - partial derived state -- programmatically set
Becky: checked and unchecked by mouse click or spacebar -- a toggle
<scribe> DonE: partial checkbox is programmatically determined
Becky: specify that all checkboxes have labels?
AlG: spec will require that -- can help people in coaching on good practice
Chris: inverse - if on partially checked checkbox and hit space should all children be affected? typical GUI behavior
AlG: chasing a will'o'the wisp -- if light, full and custom are 3 choices, hitting spacebar should get you into finer grain
Becky: is a case where use GUI app, have nested checkboxes; pick one, top-level checkbox shows partial
AlG: does spacebar select all or clear all -- what is sequence
<scribe> DonE: partial to off to on -- can't get back to partial; if hit spacebar, turns it off, if go into details all children checkboxes have been cleared
Chris: font list - if turn on half of them, should first click on partially checked checkbox
AlG: need to check other apps to find out if uniformity applied
<scribe> DonE: reflected in options
GJR: often when use multiple select option, often loose focus when inspecting options; could substitute checkboxes with partial states (lynx model: comobo boxes as radio buttons; multiple select combo boxes as checkboxes)
Becky: mapped browser behavior, stick a style rule over it, for performance reasons decided to let UA do most of the work;
AlG: pragmatic decision need to spell out clearly in Best Practices; clear conflict between browser behavior between browsers -- there is an HTML coding for radio button functionality, best practice is don't script, use HTML/XHTML -- feel will be different on different UAs,
<scribe> DonE: checkboxes: 2 state and 3 state; 2 state select or deselect with space; 3 state if partially checked, spacebar fully checked and so are child elements
LisaP: from SAP, volunteered to be integrator editor for best practices document which include keybinding decisions
<scribe> DonE: valueable skill
LisaP: about a month away
<scribe> DonE: recommendations for agenda?
Becky: Earl has a lot to say
about issues posted to list; not sure ready to share -- brings
up issues for ARIA team -- dojo accordian container just a tab
container, earl working on much more complex accordion -- have
to figure out how to distinguish through UI; will ping Earl
offlist
... need to add a few more use cases for menus to ensure they
are covered
AlG: request for ChrisB - how to construct context menus
ChrisB: how to move focus to create a dom event that at notices
AlG: agenda items for this group or no?
ChrisB: generalized technique -- how some of these things can be implemented
AlG: input tokenizer needs menus;
RichS working on drag-and-drop which includes menus
... idea of a prologue -- authored introduction; is there
markup for author to indicate "this is what you need to pay
attention to" -- blew off aw custom rule, but still a use case
hanging out there;
... context help and prologue -- need use cases
Becky: need to address tabindex behavior and focus; one thing in control taht has tabindex=0 -- do we agree? should we make it official? from forum questions, think need to address
AlG: may need 2 techniques: one
that relies on ARIA support, one that shous how built-in
portions of ML can be effectively used
... RichS has put work into talking about use cases on PF/ARIA
wiki
http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/ARIA
GJR: will send IRC log to DonE
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128 of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Found Scribe: Gregory J. Rosmaita Found ScribeNick: oedipus WARNING: Replacing previous Present list. (Old list: Don_Evans, Al_Gilman, Becky_Gibson, Gregory_J._Rosmaita) Use 'Present+ ... ' if you meant to add people without replacing the list, such as: <dbooth> Present+ Al_Gilman, Becky_Gibson, Lisa_Papas, Becky_Gibson, Chris_B, Gregory_J._Rosmaita Present: Al_Gilman Becky_Gibson Lisa_Papas Becky_Gibson Chris_B Gregory_J._Rosmaita Got date from IRC log name: 27 Jul 2007 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/27-wai-xtech-minutes.html People with action items: - becky post[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]