W3C

XML Sec Spec Maint WG Weekly

29 May 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Giles Hogben
, Konrad Klanz
, Thomas Roessler
Rob Miller
Ed Simon
Sean Mullen
Juan Carlos Cruellas
Richard Salz
Greg Berezow
Regrets
Phillip Hallam Baker
Frederick Hirsch
Hal Lockhart
Chair
Thomas Roessler
Scribe
Giles Hogben

Contents


<tlr> Date: 2007-05-29

<tlr> Date: 2007-05-29

<tlr> scribe: GilesHogben

<tlr> ScribeNick: GilesHogben

Administrivia: scribe confirmation, next meeting

<tlr> Next meeting: 5 June, Frederick to chair, Konrad to scribe

Konrad will scribe next meeting

Review and approval of last meeting's minutes

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/05/ 22-xmlsec-minutes

No objections to minutes

<tlr> RESOLUTION: minutes accepted

Action item review

<scribe> Done - share transform that does not depend on input

by Konrad

<tlr> ACTION-6 done; discuss at future meeting

<tlr> ACTION-26 continued

action 6 done - discuss at future mission

agenda bashing

add a brief excursion into C14N draft?

Workshop planning

<tlr> ACTION-28 moot

<tlr> ACTION-29 closed

<trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

<tlr> ACTION-30 closed

<trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlse c/ws/cfp.html

Call to be issued June 6 deadline for papers 14 Aug

IETF has meeting in last week of july - so good for propoganda

Review 2nd half of August

Giles OK for PC work - 2nd HALF of Aug

Ed should be OK but can't guarantee

Konrad has time - position papers are from where?

TLR should be within the group - there is some flexibility - you can write the posn paper early

2nd half of Aug to review the pp's we already got and to negotiate the agenda

Greg Whitehead Yes

<gberezow> gberezow is ok with 2nd half august

Sean - OK

Rob OK

JuanCarlos - Probably not (Holidays)

can work before

TLR critical mass for 2nd half Aug

<scribe> pending availlability of Frederick we should go for this schedule

accepted

<tlr> timeline seems ok, approved pending availability of Frederick

<tlr> ACTION-30 done

Action 30 closed

Current status of drafts: c14n issue with xml:base

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0044.h tml

Konrad has sent a message to both wg's about xml-base

TLR Who can review this issue for a discussion in next call

<klanz2> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/att-00 44/Apendix.html

Konrad note appendix at bottom of message

to see Delta - appended some test-cases

above that is the correct version of the appendix

would like someone who is going to implement to see if he/she agrees

TLR is that appendix actually normative in C14N 1.1?

Konrad not sure but would guess it is if implementations are required to use the same cannonical output

There is still some potential to elaborate on details.

TLR Review before going into details

<tlr> ACTION: salz to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-35 - Review Konrad\'s message re xml:base by next call [on Rich Salz - due 2007-06-05].

<tlr> ACTION: juan carlos to review KonraD's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - juan

<EdS> I'm taking a quick look at c14n 1.1 CR and do not see any indication Appendix A is not normative.

<tlr> ACTION: cruellas to review KonraD's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-36 - Review KonraD\'s message re xml:base by next call [on Juan Carlos Cruellas - due 2007-06-05].

<tlr> ACTION: sean to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-37 - Review Konrad\'s message re xml:base by next call [on Sean Mullan - due 2007-06-05].

<tlr> ACTION: ed to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-38 - Review Konrad\'s message re xml:base by next call [on Ed Simon - due 2007-06-05].

<tlr> substantive discussion deferred to next call

Current status of drafts: DSig Core

<tlr> ACTION-33 closed

<trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

<tlr> ACTION-31, ACTION-32 closed

Action 31 on Juan C to propose a reference processing modelling summary

Sean to propose a different langauge for validator and generator part

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0042.h tml

mostly done on ML. End of that thread see url above

proposed slightly different text for the note

is there any need for further discussioon of this text

or do we adopt the editor's draft accordingly

Konrad do we get a new version of the redline doc?

<EdS> A search on the word "normative" in c14n 1.1 CR reveals only 1 instance -- that saying only the English version is normative. So it would appear the whole c14n 1.1 CR document, including the appendix, is normative.

TLR Will send around the editor's draft

have people looked at the text?

would people prefer to see the editor's draft

JCarlos agree with changes

<tlr> juan carlos: fine

<tlr> sean: looks fine

<EdS> I looked at the text changes and they look fine to me.

<tlr> ACTION: thomas to update editor's draft according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0042.h tml [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action06]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-39 - Update editor\'s draft according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0042.h tml [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-06-05].

<tlr> ACTION-19 closed

<trackbot-ng> Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0041.h tml

Konrad: had a look at Gregor's message and proposed new text for bullets in section 2.

please copy to chat

<sean> please copy to chat

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0041.h tml

I just try to be precise where DNames appear or not

<klanz2> 2.

<klanz2> * The |X509IssuerSerial| element, which contains an X.509

<klanz2> issuer distinguished name/serial number pair. The X.509

<klanz2> issuer distinguished name SHOULD be compliant with the DNAME

<klanz2> encoding rules at the end of this section and the serial

<klanz2> number is represented as a decimal integer,

<klanz2> * The |X509SubjectName| element, which contains an X.509

<klanz2> subject distinguished name that SHOULD be compliant with the

<klanz2> DNAME encoding rules at the end of this section,

Konrad concerned about & and opening tag bracket but as discussed with Thomas, this can be handled by saying it is text to be added

Should it be done in CDATA section or by escaping?

<klanz2> sorry lost the call

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0041.h tml

Decryption Transform

<tlr> http://www.w3 .org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmlenc-decrypt.html

Frederick has done some basic edits

<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmlenc-decrypt.html#sec-xml-process ing

first set of edits in processing rules section

there is a definition of decrypt XML and second subpoint of second step deals with inheritance

<klanz2> go ahead

<klanz2> sure

please paste into IRC (proposed change)

<tlr> If a node-set is replacing an element from N whose parent element is not in N, then its apex elements MUST inherit xml:lang and xml:space attributes associated with the XML namespace from the parent element, such as [XML-C14N11]. The xml:base, xml:lang and xml:space attribute from the XML namespace MUST be processed as specified in Canonical XML 1.

Decrypt algorithm in sec 3.1 - main proposed change to replace explicit mention of certain specific attributes according to C14N 1.1

<tlr> "As a result, D for N is a node-set consisting ..."

In 3.3, below examples is an editorial change to fix erratum 1.

In 3.4.2, inheriting attributes - ref to C14N - any comments?

TLR propose that at next meeting we propose this draft become last call

<klanz2> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-encryption/2005Mar/0000.html

<klanz2> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-encryption/2005Mar/0001.html

Konrad: is this the guy who actually found the problem (see URL) - could we get back to him with some feedback

on how we fixed it

TLR: yes good idea

<tlr> ACTION: klanz2 to contact CAO Yongsheng confirming treatment of E1 in Decryption Transform [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action07]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-40 - Contact CAO Yongsheng confirming treatment of E1 in Decryption Transform [on Konrad Lanz - due 2007-06-05].

TLR no comments and no objections to Frederick's changes on Decrypt transform

propose we issue this version with updated namespace URI's

<tlr> as LC WD at next meeting

if anyone wants to raise review comments, do so next week

signature encore

<tlr> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0041.h tml

1st bullet step 2 - is basically done

inside the X509 issuer there is a serial

there are 2 values inside - one the DName, the other the SNumber

the previous text was not very concise about this

but only the DName is affected - just clarified what was affected

next message was the test case - a challenging DName

Sean 1st bullet of second - second sentence is a runon - would just say

<tlr> "The X.509 issuer distinguished name SHOULD be compliant with the DNAME encoding rules at the end of this section. The serial number is represented as a decimal integer."

konrad: The test case - tried to get all escapeable chars in and RFC 2253 compliant

paste into XML problem with &

maybe we need to make explicity need to escape &

give guidance on whether to escape or put into CDATA

as long as people don't touch it until verification it won't affect a lot

in many cases the keyinfo is not signed but in some cases it is

not sure if it's really a problem

Konrad you can identify the key either by supplying it as a cert

just needs to be identified , and can also be signed to ensure non-substitution

when you're identifying it you have to do it in CDATA - otherwise you break the XML

Sean: I'll take an action to look at what our implementation does

<tlr> ACTION: sean to check his implementation wrt DNAME erratum [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action08]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-41 - Check his implementation wrt DNAME erratum [on Sean Mullan - due 2007-06-05].

TLR worth having a look at testcase

JC: Looks like there was a common view that the text of the Dname should be put in a CDATA section

but reading the text, it clearly speaks about escaping & and "-"

i.e. the text is saying to escape it in the XML - not in CDATA

values may be used for comparing values of DName by other apps - like Xades [?]

In order to check if the cert used for generating the sig is the one referenced

you have to check the one used with the DName string

so it may break an app

<tlr> Also, strings in DNames (X509IssuerSerial,X509SubjectName, and KeyName if approriate) should be encoded as follows:

TLR: this is not an ecoding which deals with making it XML Safe - it's to do with backslash character

so can't see in rec text that there is entity encoding explicitlyl

Konrad: also has same perception as JC

a lot of people seem to interpret it that way

in a lot of cases where encoding of entities is needed, it's done rather than being put into CDATA section

the spec is silent about what should happen

TLR: isn't that silence the right thing

q

Sean: Silence is not the right thing

<EdS> Suggest we continue the discussion on /2007May/0041.html next week so we can think about this more over the week.

<tlr> +1 to ed

Konrad - silence would be good if it would canonicalize

but don't see how strings in XML are to be canonicalised if signed

rather have it robust than lose canonicalisation

TLR: There is a canonicalisation step before things are signed and hashed

Action is on JC and Konrad to come up with an example where the current silence can break an app

<tlr> ACTION: cruellas to produce example for breakage due to current E01 language [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action09]

<trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-42 - Produce example for breakage due to current E01 language [on Juan Carlos Cruellas - due 2007-06-05].

JC: agrees

<tlr> ACTION: klanz to produce example for breakage due to current E01 language [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action10]

<trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - klanz

Konrad: agres

agrees

<klanz2> http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-c14n11/ (section 1.1 says CDATA sections are replaced with their character content)

<tlr> rragent, please draft minutes

<klanz2> can I listen in

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: cruellas to produce example for breakage due to current E01 language [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: cruellas to review KonraD's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: juan carlos to review KonraD's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: klanz to produce example for breakage due to current E01 language [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: klanz2 to contact CAO Yongsheng confirming treatment of E1 in Decryption Transform [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: salz to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: sean to check his implementation wrt DNAME erratum [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: sean to review Konrad's message re xml:base by next call [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: thomas to update editor's draft according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0042.h tml [recorded in http://www.w 3.org/2007/05/29-xmlsec-minutes.html#action06]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/06/07 23:14:22 $