W3C

SWD WG

20 Mar 2007

Agenda

See also: IRC log, previous 2007-03-13

Attendees

Present
Tom Baker, Ralph Swick, Jon Phipps, Siggi Handschuh, Vit Novacek, Guus Schreiber, Alistair Miles, Simone Onofri, Ben Adida
Regrets
Antoine Isaac, Bernard Horan, Diego Berrueta, Sean Bechhofer
Chair
Guus
Scribe
Ralph

Contents


 Guus: welcome to Siggi and Vit

Admin

Tom: I need to check the record of 13 March actions, as there was some confusion between me and Jon about status of one of them

Guus: we'll carry forward discussion of previous minutes to next week, then

[later, just before adjourning]

Tom: I checked the minutes of the 13 March meeting and they look OK

RESOLVED to accept -> minutes of 13 March telecon

ACTION: [DONE] Ralph get tracker to watch public-swd-wg@w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]

ACTION: [DONE] Guus to check if Amsterdam can be F2F venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17]

Guus: CWI will host a meeting, either in our facilities or in the W3C Amsterdam Office

Tom: we need more people to respond to the f2f poll

Ralph: see "Open polls and questionnaires" under "Nearby" on WG home page

SKOS

-> SKOS Deliverable

ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action04] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01] [CONTINUES]

ACTION: Guus to propose resolution to SKOS issue 26 circa 15 March for discussion on 20 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09] [WITHDRAWN]

Guus: I don't see a consensus yet; the WG appears to be split
... Alistair asked to postpone this issue

Alistair: we have only one concrete proposal on the table now, the revised proposal from Guus
... we don't have a concrete proposal on alternatives, e.g. class-as-pattern
... can't discuss alternatives without a concrete proposal
... I propose to postpone this issue until advocates for another approach post a full proposal
... it doesn't have to be either-or, however; there are solutions that might accomodate both
... see my revised alternative proposal mailed yesterday

Guus: I prefer solutions that make minimal changes to the original specification while still handling the requirements
... my second proposal differed from my first proposal by dropping requirements for alt labels and permitting more flexibility in the value
... this makes the specification lighter
... this would be an intermediate minimal solution

Alistair: I thought earlier that your second proposal was the one with 'has label relation' property

Guus: no, that was a refinement of my first proposal

Alistair: I don't like to have the range of a property be underspecified
... I think it makes sense to set the expectation that range of certain properties will be plain literals
... if an application has to deal with various alternatives, it makes the implementation more complicated

<guus> my second proposal

Alistair: I would like to the *label property values to be plain literals
... I agree with the approach Guus is proposing and make the smallest commitment we can make that is sensible
... but having underspecified ranges for the particular label properties may be harmful

Guus: the problem with alt and pref label is that we simply don't know -- it depends on the specific vocabularies
... each vocabulary has a notion of alt and preferred label but makes different decisions with respect to [use of] strings
... we can either complicate SKOS by adding multiple solutions or we rule out one approach

Alistair: for any single vocabulary there are several ways to model it in RDF
... just because we choose to use literals in altLabel and prefLabel doesn't mean we've ruled out the ability to capture everything in that vocabulary
... I show solutions that allow people to extend SKOS in various ways while still permitting some interoperability

Guus: I have a feeling that our two proposals will not generate consensus; they're viewed as too contrived
... forcing a vocabulary owner to create an individual for every term is also unlikely to get consensus
... need a middle ground that allows for both

Alistair: my proposal does not prevent either approach; it's a different way of looking at the problem

Guus: but it makes the specification more complicated

Alistair: I disagree; it creates 3 design patterns that can be extended
... and would simplify one section of the current Guide
... it provides an extensibility framework for modelling relationships between literals if you want to do so
... it's worth thinking about this
... I'd like to keep prefLabel, altLabel, and hiddenLabel stable
... there are entailments that follow from the use of plain literal; e.g. a blank node of type rdfs:Literal
... you can name plain literals with URIs if you want

Guus: I don't want to go down that road

Alistair: it would help to have very specific proposal here, e.g. for Guus' proposal to underspecify values

ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other options [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: [DONE] Alistair updates SKOS section of deliverables page based on proposed restructuring of documents cited in he previous email to the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12]

Guus: I'll ping Antoine on the editor's draft of the SKOS Use Cases

ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases editors' draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]

Recipes

-> Recipes

ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUES]

Jon: Diego has posted some preliminary work on test cases
... I think we committed to early April to have a version
... I'll talk with Diego about whether we have enough material to create an interim draft

Guus: It's fine to post a WD that notes still-open issues

Vocabulary Management

-> Vocab Management

ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

Guus: I'd like for Siggi and Vit to talk with Elisa and propose a work plan for this Note

Vit: I've exchanged mail with Elisa and outlined what we are able to offer
... we need to consider which parts of the very abstract proposal we can contribute

Guus: Siggi and Vit head the vocabulary work in KnowledgeWeb, so I appreciate their participation here

Semantic Integration Note

-> Semantic Integration

Guus: we've decided to leave this item as low priority for now
... so I will omit it from future agenda for now and perhaps revive it later

Ralph: so let's note in our Deliverables Wiki that this deliverable is at risk

RDFa

-> RDFa Primer 1.0 12 March 2007 published

<benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Mar/0047.html

Ben: I'm not sure I can cite specific reply from Alistair or Daniel

<benadida> [RDFa] Scenarios Review/

-> Request to Vote on publication of RDFa Primer and Use Case documents

Alistair: I've read the email describing responses to all my comments and I'm happy if my comments have been addressed per that email

Guus: please send email to the list with that reply, Alistair

<TomB> +1 to publish Use Case document as Working Draft

<Simone> +1

RESOLVED to proceed with publishing -> RDFa Use Cases: Scenarios for Embedding RDF in HTML as First Public Working Draft

ACTION: Ben make sure http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13]

Guus: I'd like Ben to do some publicity on relevant mailing lists; e.g. semantic-web@w3.org

Ben: happy to do that. We also keep an RDFa blog

Guus: how about some html-related mailing lists?

ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use Cases work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]

Ben: I'd appreciate other suggestions on what mailing lists to notify

[adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Ben make sure http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/20070305/ is pubrules compliant and hand to Ralph [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to send mail to Semantic Web and HTML mailing lists publicizing and soliciting comments on RDFa Primer and RDFa Use Cases work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus ping Antoine regarding status of SKOS Use Cases editors' draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Guus revise his ISSUE-26 proposal to account for other options [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action07]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write down the general documentation requirements, in particular to those that are related to literal values, and how to represent that in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: Alan to write up the preferredLabel modelling issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action01]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa and Sean to review SKOS editor's draft http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/UCRMaterial?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=ucr-20070306.html by 27 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/20-swd-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elisa to summarize state of Vocabulary Management draft, add comments, and coordinate work [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes.html#action14]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Alistair updates SKOS section of deliverables page based on proposed restructuring of documents cited in he previous email to the group [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/13-swd-minutes.html#action12]
[DONE] ACTION: Guus to check if Amsterdam can be F2F venue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action17]
[DONE] ACTION: Ralph get tracker to watch public-swd-wg@w3.org [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/06-swd-minutes.html#action01]
 
[DROPPED] ACTION: Guus to propose resolution to SKOS issue 26 circa 15 March for discussion on 20 March [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-swd-minutes.html#action09]
 
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.128 (CVS log)
$Date: 2007/03/20 18:00:48 $