Chris: Discussion is to progress the issues we've been circling around about metamodels, asn06, BNF etc and which is in the document in the final form

Dave: table discussion on metadata and use of RDF as a related issue, but not tackle that head on know

Harold: what about the KM3 language pointed to by Gerd?

Sandro: datapoint, have already built an asn06 to UML-like diagram translator, see posting on mail list
... using composition symbol
... humm, does the recursion/cycles cause problems?
... no problem, here we are talking about classes not instances

Chris: so we can use a MOF diagram to represent the syntax
... issue remains that a metamodeller would expect features such as the signature of constants which aren't directly related to the syntax
... need to be clear we are only using the metamodel for the abstract syntax

Sandro: lets look at a better example of the diff between metamodel and use for syntax

Chris: uses ODM as an example of the differences

Sandro: convinced there are differences there

<sandro> --- We'll use UML to help visualizating the abstract syntax, but it's not a metamodel.

Chris: so we can use MOF/UML as a visualization of our abstract syntax but we avoid calling it a metamodel

[Discussion on human readable syntax, fully striped is not very readable]

Discussion on the term "human readable syntax" suggested using "presentation syntax" instead

Chris voices preference that the presentation syntax be simple enough, so avoid fully striped

Issue about distinguishing builtin connectives (and, or etc) and user defined predicates

But if everything is a is a URI then the rif namespace separates And from user defined Ands

Discussion on avoiding things like :- as too sugared and might upset people as too prolog/like

scribe: could avoid special symbols and infixes, stick to the names in the asn06 but skip the roles and use ordering to reduce verbosity

Action Sandro to make concrete proposal for the presentation syntax based on this discussion

Code name for the discussion presentation syntax: rps

<sandro> "RPSa" RIF Presentation Syntax a

<sandro> scribenick DaveReynolds

<sandro> scribenick: DaveReynolds

<sandro> Chrair: ChrisW

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.128  of Date: 2007/02/23 21:38:13  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: DaveReynolds
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <DaveReynolds> ...
Inferring Scribes: DaveReynolds

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.

Present: ChrisW Sandro MichaelKifer Harold Dru_McCandless DaveReynolds
Got date from IRC log name: 27 Feb 2007
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/27-rif2-minutes.html
People with action items: 

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report