See also: IRC log
<tlr> ACTION: thomas to link scribing quick-ref from WG admin page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-134 - Link scribing quick-ref from WG admin page [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-02-13].
<Mez_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wsc-wg/2007Jan/0025.html
MEZ: introduces agenda bashing topic
<tlr> RESOLVED: 23 January minutes approved.
<tlr> Approval of face-to-face minutes tabled.
MEZ: Minutes from last conference call approved
<tlr> no objections
TLR: Prefers to hold off on approving minutes from F2F meeting.
<Mez_> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/note/#goals
<Mez_> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/NoteGoals
<Mez_> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/GoalsNonGoals
<Mez_> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/drafts/note/#non-goals
<Mez_> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/NoteNonGoals
MEZ: Introduces discussion of Goals and Non
Goals
... Reads first goal, asks for issues. No comment
... Security information integrated into "browser work flow"
Tyler: Expands on topic per request from
MEZ.
... Asks MEZ to explain what is difficult to understand about this.
Hal: Suggests that this be explained by stating the negative of this goal.
<tlr> ACTION: tyler to reword 2.2 a bit more verbosely; add negative ("not stuff that's easily ignored") [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-135 - Reword 2.2 a bit more verbosely; add negative (\"not stuff that\'s easily ignored\") [on Tyler Close - due 2007-02-13].
MEZ: Asks that action be generated to update
2.2
... Reads 2.3 Goal
... Suggests also including a negative statement as well.
TLR: Expresses concern that this is [too] strongly worded.
<tlr> ACTION: tyler to s/prevent/mitigate and prevent/ in 2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-136 - S/prevent/mitigate and prevent/ in 2.3 [on Tyler Close - due 2007-02-13].
MEZ: We may need a range of options. 2.2 seems
reasonable, but 2.3 needs to be changed to say "mitigate or prevent."
... Does this include "lack of security information?"
... Group also will recommend techniques that prevent overwriting of user
agent presentation of security information.
<tlr> +1 to spelling it out
Tyler: Asks if setting the "negative indicator" is sufficient
<tlr> ACTION: tyler to s/deceptive imitation/deceptive imitation or hiding/ in 2.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action04]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-137 - S/deceptive imitation/deceptive imitation or hiding/ in 2.3 [on Tyler Close - due 2007-02-13].
CW: Editor's note: The term "negative" is being used relative to statements of goals, and also security indicators.
MEZ: Introduces goal 2.4
... statement of 2.4 accepted. Goal 2.5 introduced
... Moves on to 2.6
TLR: raises concern that 2.6 may not lead to actual deliverables
<tlr> oopos
Chuck: asks for clarification on 2.6 and whether this is intended to address new forms of URLs, as well as new media presentations.
TLR: agrees that this is probably relevant--not sure if this is an expansion on this goal, or a new thought. This is also a question of WG scope.
MEZ: Notes that this topic has cropped up previously, but not sure it's covered in the current "Notes" document.
<tlr> tlr will deal with Chuck's thought in context of ACTION-81
<Zakim> hal, you wanted to new goal promotion and education on wsc recommendations
Hal: raises question of how to "promote" the recommendations and address education of users and other players?
<maritzaj> i meant to put myeslf on the queue
TLR: Answers that this set of goals is specific to recommendations as deliverables, but they do not address the "how."
Hal: expresses concern that we need to be stating the "ways and means" for getting the message out.
Maritza: Asks if this is covered by 2.5?
Hal: Feels that this objective is not yet covered.
MEZ: Asks TLR for clarification on his comment about how to handle Hal's goal
TLR: Expresses his understanding of the scope of this issue.
MEZ: States perspective that some questions of
scope have not been addressed, and are being held for the "overview"
... Now might be the time to come to consensus on the "meta" scope of this
"Note"
TLR: Discusses the issue of how to address
"outreach." The Note may not be the right place to address outreach plan. Not
sure this needs to be an output of the "consensus process."
... Outreach is important; we should think about it. But it might not be
something to address in a public forum.
Hal: Anything that we agree we need to do that is not in this document should be somewhere.
<tlr> This note makes the scope and goals of the group's technical work more precise. It does not cover additional activities that the group intends to engage in, e.g., ongoing outreach and education.
MEZ: asks Thomas where we should address this. Back and forth discussion about how to move this into the "Overview."
<tlr> ACTION: Zurko to re-phrase Thomas's proposed overview text. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action05]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-138 - Re-phrase Thomas\'s proposed overview text. [on Mary Ellen Zurko - due 2007-02-13].
TLR: provides a statement of what needs to be included in overview.
MEZ: Takes action to incorporate this into the
Overview
... Introduces Goal 2.7. Corresponding user interpretation is "interesting."
Asks Tyler if this is meant to incorporate more than this "low bar."
<tlr> +1 to hal
Tyler: agrees with MEZ's interpretation. Asks if the current phrasing clarifies the "low bar."
Hal: Recommends moving this up to the first Goal, otherwise it is jarring to encounter this important goal at the end.
<Mez_> I found it mildly jarring too, but didn't think it was worth a lot of discussion time. fyi.
TLR: The order is important. Discusses arguments for what goals should be up front.
<tlr> proposed new ordering: 2.7, 2.4, then the rest
TLR: 2.7, then 2.4, and then the others
<tlr> ACTION: tyler to reorder section 2: 2.7, 2.4, then rest [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action06]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-139 - Reorder section 2: 2.7, 2.4, then rest [on Tyler Close - due 2007-02-13].
<tlr> I just realized today is day 1 of RSA week. No surprise folks are slacking with the call.
MEZ: Introduces the "non-goals" section.
TLR: This is good stuff, but not sure it should have a subsection. Also asks if this is a "non goal"?
<tlr> http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/wiki/NoteNonGoals
MEZ: raises questions of which non-goals are scope clarifications vs. goals that are unattainable?
TLR: Reviews other non-goals in terms of
whether they relate to scope, or feasibility.
... A classical non-goal would be applicability to other application
contexts.
MEZ: Hal and TLR seem to understand what they're proposing, but others appear to be confused. Proposes action item to clarify how we're treating the "non-goals."
<tlr> ACTION: hal to propose non-goals material re other app contexts [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/06-wsc-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-140 - Propose non-goals material re other app contexts [on Hal Lockhart - due 2007-02-13].
MEZ: Expresses admiration for Hal's techniques for expressing opinions.
TLR: Wants to elevate the statement in non-goals that clarifies overall scope. Should this be presented at an overview section.
MEZ: Proposes that we wrap this conf call. Next meeting is as scheduled.
Tyler: Asks who got action item to redraft section 8.
MEZ: Asks Tyler if he is in a position to draft "Overview"
TLR: Expresses concern that section 8 should not be on the critical path.
MEZ: The overview is "make or break."
TLR: Advocates for putting this out. Also, what "title" do we put on this document.
Tyler: Expresses concern that he cannot easily write an overview of a document where so many sections are in the process of major re-work.
Hal: Suggests that we're talking more about an
executive abstract, not the "overview."
... Big purpose is to tell the larger community what we're up to, and start
getting feedback.
<staikos> bye
MEZ: Closes meeting.