See also: IRC log
<kendallclark> damn
<kendallclark> i think i have to tell it something special because of time change in the US :(
<LeeF> time change?
<LeeF> Sounds like a problem for ericP
<kendallclark> yeah
41 mins is 15:00Z which is neither old nor new - we aren't DBWG are we?
<kendallclark> No
<kendallclark> -sigh-
<kendallclark> that ain't gonna work
<kendallclark> damn, it doesn't have a big window, does it
<kendallclark> Ok, someone's trying to find the person to fix this...
<kendallclark> Sorry guys
NP
<kendallclark> is eric around?
Just msg'ed him
<LeeF> AndyS --
<LeeF> after my reservations yesterday on IRC
<LeeF> i thought more about the filter + optional problem
<LeeF> and agree that it is a problem
<LeeF> and i think that your approach to it
Eric is on the case.
<LeeF> while a bit mucky to formalize
<LeeF> is the correct approach
<LeeF> (i spent some time trying to come up with queries where you would *want* the strict-group-scope semantics, and convinced myself that such cases don't exist)
LeeF: see this AM's formalization - explicit muckiness! - on comments. Whether it works or not remains to be seen but the idea might have some milage.
<LeeF> yes, i saw it :-)
<LeeF> it's along the lines of what we scribbled in IRC yesterday when SteveH was around
Did you come with any examples?
<LeeF> Examples? Bah humbug! I'm really a theory wanker at heart ;-p
<tlr> Here's your call
<LeeF> thanks, tlr!
<tlr> Note that it's a different code
<ericP> before folks try this, let's see if ...
<LeeF> oh whoops
<ericP> rats, too late
<LeeF> sorry :(
<ericP> np
<ericP> you can hang up with no consequence
<LeeF> should I?
<ericP> no, wait
<LeeF> hehe
<ericP> let's go with a known quantity
<ericP> folks can ask i irc for the code
<ericP> could try this:
<kendallclark> so are we using the new or the old code?
<LeeF> new code
<ericP> no worky
<tlr> old code no worky?
<LeeF> Andy and I are on ok
<LeeF> with 83261
<ericP> yeah, just trying to see if i could avoid a new code for people not on irc
<scribe> Scribe: Andy Seaborne
<scribe> ScribeNick: AndyS
<kendallclark> tons of static when eric speaks
<kendallclark> speaking for UMD, I care vastly more about having the semantics look like they're starting to look *now* than I am about all the entailment stuff, which I still think we should just punt on.
{ patterns, filters, patterns OPTIONAL { P } } =>{ { group(join patterns, filters) } OPTIONAL { P } }
<ericP> minutes from 2 weeks ago
<LeeF> { P1 F1 OPTIONAL { P2 } P3 F2 }
<kendallclark> I propose we approve those minutes.
<kendallclark> Someone 2nd?
<kendallclark> 2nd'd, LeeF
10 01{ ( ( join P1 where F1 ) LeftJoin/OPTIONAL { P2 } ) join P3 where F2 }
<kendallclark> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/att-0103/24-dawg-minutes.html
<kendallclark> APPROVED as true record of 17 Oct meeting
<scribe> ACTION: PatH to draft replacement vanilla entailment section for WG consideration [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to close formsOfDistinct issue [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: PatH to review the proposed tests in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JulSep/0169 and say yay or nay [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: KendallC to remember that the wee, lost filter tests should be put to the question (re: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0099.html [CONTINUES] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: LeeF to throw said 3 approved tests into the approved bucket [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action05]
Next time: regrets: AndyS (ISWC)
<ericP> SteveH, we're using a different bridge, 83261
14: 30UTC
<RalphS> you guys want your regular telecon code back?
<kendallclark> doesn't matter for th is week
<kendallclark> but for next week, ykes, please
<kendallclark> DST screwed us (me) up...
<RalphS> DAWG is the only WG who doesn't shift their telecon time
<RalphS> (but that's an old discussion we don't need to repeat her)
<RalphS> we'll sort it out for next week
<LeeF> ACTION: LeeF to reply to Patrick Shironoshita's email re: OPTIONAL and UNION [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action06]
Also: there was a comments comment on test suite. I can reply to that if people are happy
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html
<scribe> ACTION: AndyS Reply based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006OctDec/0068.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-dawg-minutes.html#action07]
Domain is done naturally by the algebra ; as are dups and union (Chilean cardinality) modulo BGP and the blank node mapping function
<kendallclark> thx
<kendallclark> fwiw, +1 re: enough consensus
<LeeF> +20 re: enough consensus
<LeeF> kendallclark -- when you asked jeen last week if he wanted to keep on w/ test suite responsibilities, what did he answer?
<kendallclark> "yes, but i don't have time"
<kendallclark> the job is open IMO
<LeeF> thanks
<SteveH> I could probably re-assume test stuff, though my time is a bit patchy
<LeeF> seconded!
<LeeF> ;-)
<kendallclark> Yay!
<kendallclark> we accept, Steve :)
<SteveH> um, woo :-|
<SteveH> regrets for next week BTW, ISWC
Meeting next time at 14:30UTC on 7/Nov
Scribe next time: LeeF
<kendallclark> LeeF to scribe
ADJOURNED
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