See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: r12a
<scribe> ACTION: Andrew, review http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoEncoding and draft some more text, and discuss on 28th [ONGOING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: Andrew, Work on comments for What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8? [ONGOING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: John, look at Getting Started stuff to provide more material. [ONGOING] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: RI, change the IRC channel in the agenda [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action04]
<scribe> ACTION: RI, send Andrew comments related to "What should I consider wrt moving to UTF-8" [ONGOING]
<scribe> ACTION: RI, send out note asking for feedback on possible new names for 'primary language' [DONE] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action05]
David: on an anti-spam discussion group someone was trying to understand the Chinese - David suggested
changing the encoding
... which led to a general discussion
... which led to discussion of GEO work and outreach
RI: reviewing a chapter for a book by Liz Castro on writing XHTLM and HTML
... PeachPit book that sold over million copies so far
... has a chapter devoted to characters and encodings and language declarations
... so getting that stuff right is really useful for outreach
... book is entitled HTML, XHTML, and CSS, Sixth Edition: Visual QuickStart Guide
... due for release in August
... on i18n home page the blog post baout Molly's talk at @media has a link to two photos on flickr
... current viewing stats for those photos are 6,031 hits
... shows lots of people are visiting
... i spent time looking at the server logs
RI: the rfc 3066bis matching spec has been approved by the IETF
... so now we are going through the final editor related stages of the process
... however this may still take some time
... until we have a number
RR: since june 1st we've had around 261 feedbacks - leading to about 15 with comments
... ie. 5% with comments
... note that the feedback senders are a small percentage of total visitors, so that's good news
... some feedback is not related to the document - we should probably just leave these alone
... how should we process these comments?
<scribe> ACTION: Russ, day before the meeting compile a list of outstanding comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action06]
RR: if we then have something that needs discussion we can address it in the meeting
RI: suggest a wiki page for gathering comments
Agreement
RI: Someone is sending spurious comments all set to score of 1, often in batches - we should ignore those
RI: has been out for wide review for quite a while
... no comments so far
Agreed to publish
RI: Publish a new interim version?
Agreed to publish
RR: what's the process to include IE7 in the list of tracked user agents
... current release is beta 3 and likely not many changes, but won't be released until vista comes out
DC: we shouldn't say anything about it until it is a released version
RI: I guess i agree with DC
Russ: ok
http://esw.w3.org/topic/geoLangTags
Comments on proposed text? Move to Working Draft ? When to publish?
<scribe> ACTION: RI, move article to working draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/07/12-i18ngeo-minutes.html#action07]
RI: Should we publish before rfc3066bis has a number?
DC: yes, with notes
RR: if the intended readers can use it now, yes
Agreed, publish as soon as ready
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html
RI: i've been working away at this, bringing into the same format and approach as langugae BP
... and adding/developing material too
... any comments today ?
... Particularly new section on Problems with bidi source text
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e276
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#d2e278
Section 3
this is a new section
but provides useful reference information for other parts of the document
3.3 Example source text in this document
"Given the discussion above, representing examples of source text in this document can be quite difficult. Should we show source text in right-to-left order, or left-to-right? Should we assume that the editor recognizes and handles markup and escapes as separate entities from the content, and create source fragments that look like that - or should we show source as it really looks for many people who don't have such clever editors? And particularly, should we as
<najib> other problems, some editors insert undesirable entities ot chars (e.g. when you type space.)
yes, najib, that's mentioned in the previous sections
"We will avoid source code examples unless they are very useful. We will try to describe how to apply the markup rather than show it."
"We will typically represent examples in a left-to-right context, and use invisible markup to make content and markup look as you might expect it to be displayed by an intelligent editor, since this will provide maximum clarity about the point being made, even if it doesn't reflect how the markup will look for many people."
<najib> Once, I've suggested to have another mode in the editor to present all texts from right to left (e.g. abcd efg GFE DCBA hij ...)
David: [1] people may copy and paste [2] you are reliant on the browser to behave correctly
RI: i've thought of a solution for [2]
eg.
Example 18: The corrected result, using directional marks.
The names of these states in Arabic are ???,? ??????? and ??????, respectively.
[The names of these states in Arabic are rSm, nirHbla and tiukla respectively.]
<najib> nirHabla
al Bahrein
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-bidi.html#ri20030728.072236229
<najib> I have a comment on bestpractice 7
<najib> Some time it is useful to use dir markup even if it is not necessary.
<najib> IT facilitate the insertion of punctuations and resolves the () conflicts etc.
<najib> Since you surely will have markup arround texts in different languages (for lang attribute, translate etc..) use dir markup also?
<najib> that's all
najib, since we are low on time, could you please send that in as an email ?
<najib> Yes.
najib, please read the whole section 7 first, thanks
<najib> OK. I've already read " What you need to know about the bidi algorithm and inline markup".
great
Meeting adjourned
rssagent, draft minutes