See also: IRC log
<scribe> ACTION: all to look at charmod resid test suite and gather feedback (ONGOING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action01]
francois: no new feedback
... this will be ongoing
<scribe> ACTION: all to give feedback on the LTLI draft (ONGOING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action02]
<scribe> ACTION: Francois, ping Martin about when we can make the tests public (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action03]
francois: did hear from Martin
... all pages are no accessible
... as for hosting: that will be o.k. as
well
Richard: problem is: we need somebody to edit it or change s.t.
... in the W3C side, everybody can do
that
Francois: there are system dependencies which are part of the tests
Richard: we could probably do that in W3C as well
... another problem: How to accept tests from his
Organization
... since they are not a member of W3C?
... again a patent policy problem
Francois: do we say *we* maintain a test suite?
"as soon as the following conditions are met:": no need for *us* to procude the test suite
francois: so no requirement to have a W3C test suite
... for XML we have a test suite. It was hosted by
MIT
... NIST is a member, and there were some processes to accept that as a contribution.
Richard: one question: is a non w3c test suite sufficient to get through CR?
<r12a> three main possible scenarios:
<r12a> [1] stays on martin\s servers and just point to those tests over there to fulfill CR criteria
<r12a> [2] stays on martins servers, but we call them W3C tests
<r12a> [3] move the tests to W3C servers so taht we can handle maintenance more easily
<r12a> each scenario 1 -3 probably involves increasing administrative complexity
<r12a> ACTION: RI, FS, determine what is the minimal course necessary to pass CR [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action04]
felix: I will send a mail to plh
<fyergeau> Correction: XML test suite is now hosted at W3C
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to find out where the tests from Martin are (DROPPED) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action05]
francois: I mentioned to Martin a start / presentation page, he said it would be a good idea
<scribe> ACTION: Mary will make the updates discussed in Mandelieu on ws-i18n [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: Mary to review http://www.w3.org/TR/its/ after 18 May before 30 June (ONGOING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: Francois to build a current issues list on charmod norm (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to implement discussion results from the i18n-comments list (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action09]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to create examples for defined terms (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action10]
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to ask for a review extension for WCAG (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action11]
Richard: we thought of i18n activity restructuring
... which AC reps at the AC meeting will see
... it
is a discussion, not decided yet
<r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/Activity.html
richard: take a look at the bottom of the document
... benefit is both for core and the spec work
...
key benefit: we have been slowing with charmod because we have other stuff on the radar
... on the other hand, spec work sometimes takes time
from the review work
... separating out the core work from the specification work will help a lot
... web services work will probably be
finished very quickly
Francois: What will happen for specs which are a REC?
richard: we have to think about that as well
Francois: I like the proposal, only life after REC needs to be made clearer
... if there is a version 2.0 of
a spec and there is a working group, that's o.k.
richard: we will also stagger meetings / telefone conferences
... e.g. a charmod call every two weeks
... key benefit would be that work on specific topics is more focused, not distracted by other topics
francois: so the new core working group will be not under patent policy?
richard: yes
... it would be beneficial to many people who want to join core
francois: one problem: this goes for the AC, and there is a call for participation
... there is a risc that
there is not enough participation to start a working group
richard: for core that's no risk, we have the GEO folks
... for the ws working group, we need to have enough
support to generate a working group
... I think we don't need to have a huge working group
... as for charmod, it would be maybe only three
people
... everybody fine with the proposal?
... (people on this call)
no objection
<karuneshvijay> yes
topics: LTLI
Francois: Felix implemented many changes
Felix: Addison send new comments, please have a look
Francois: so we send a publication request on Thursday
... anything else on LTLI?
... nice to see the
progress, if you have comments, please send them in
<scribe> ACTION: Felix to send a re-publication request for the LTLI draft on Thursday [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action12]
Richard: it is a pseudo element
francois: there was a call for details, and a lot of mail about the Indic languages
... discussion on the
www-international list
... should we write a Note about this?
... the CSS people seem to be very reluctant to make changes
Richard: Erika and I talked about it
... she asked me about (indic) examples, but not major changes for the
spec
... maybe we should push for a stronger wording
Francois: the examples show that "first letter, just one unicode character" is not sufficient
Richard: the default grapheme cluster rule would not cope with Indian scripts, would it?
Francois: I'm not sure
... this should be checked
Richard: currently we say:
Richard quotes the current texts on "first letter"
<r12a> original text:
<r12a> Some languages may have specific rules about how to treat certain letter
<r12a> # combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter combination "ij" appears
<r12a> # at the beginning of a word, both letters should be considered within the
<r12a> # :first-letter pseudo-element.
<r12a> first proposal:
<r12a> Note: In some cases the :first-letter pseudo-element should include more
<r12a> than just the first non-punctuation code point on a line. For example,
<r12a> combining characters must be kept with their base character. Additionally,
<r12a> some languages may have specific rules about how to treat certain letter
<r12a> combinations. In Dutch, for example, if the letter combination "ij"
<r12a> appears at the beginning of an element, both letters should be considered
<r12a> within the ::first-letter pseudo-element. The UA should include at least
<r12a> the entire default grapheme cluster as defined by [UAX 29 Text Boundaries]
<r12a> and may include more than that as appropriate.
Francois: we where proposing "default grapheme cluster" as the base line
... they (CSS group) did not want
to have that as a normative part, which is regretable
... because it does not cover many common things
... maybe we should push back
now
Richard: karunesh, Vijay, is where a language specific varitation of what a first letter is?
... in latin
scripts, there is language specific variations on how first letters shoud be treated, e.g. "ij" in Dutch
... the question is: are there language
specific variations of first letter styling for various indic scripts?
Karunesh: If you use Dev., the rules would be the same
... the situation might be different for other
(indic)scripts
... the grapheme cluster seems to be an approriate unit
karunesh gives some examples
Richard: gathering this information sounds interesting
Karunesh: we are investigating from many specialists
Richard: Should we set up a wiki for this?
Francois: good idea
Karunesh: wiki sounds also good to me
Richard: would be good to involve the Unicode list
... many people on that list could make some input on
this
... I'll put out another blog entry on this, which will point to the new wiki, and send a mail to the Unicode list about this
<scribe> ACTION: Richard to create a wiki on "first letter", post a blog and write a mail to the Unicode list about it [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-i18ncore-minutes.html#action13]
francois: next week no meeting