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<judy> ACTION: [teams] in "intro" remind people that this is about trying to make sure that the web will work for pwd [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action01]
William: The tie to accessibility needs to be more direct and clear.
<judy> ACTION: [teams] in "opportunities" look for a way to tweak wording on "networks" if possible [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action02]
<Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask about collaborative
Group: Generally positive response to the document.. It seems to capture the intent of the EO discussions.
<judy> ACTION: [teams] change "opps" to "approaches" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action03]
Justin: Approaches seems to capture the intent better than Opportunities in the title of the section.
Judy: Looking at Pasquale's comments
... Let's look at the considerations section.
<judy> ACTION: [teams] in "involving users" change may to will [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action04]
Judy: The Considerations sections is totally different
Justin: What does "distributed evaluation capability" mean?
Judy: Some organizations really distribute the
organization's web evaluation and development activity across the
... They can still do some sharing back and forth even though they are across the organization.
Justin: so we are saying that distributed evaluation can work?
... What if we gave the section an intro and took out distributed
Justin: I don't we are saying what the consideration is
Judy: We could talk about centralized vs. distributive
<judy> ACTION: [team] under "considerations" change the first h3 to "centralized vs distributed" or some such... [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action05]
Wayne: Jack and I have seen how this works in
the super large organizations.
... Have we over looked big organizations?
Judy: That bothers me a little.
... Let's take one more look at that.
Justin: What about tapping into online communities?
Judy: Maybe in identifying external expertise
<judy> ACTION: [teams] under "consid" in first h3, add a nod to small orgs [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action06]
<judy> ACTION: [teams] under "consid" in second h3, make ref to tapping into online communities incl user groups as a potential source of ext expertise to complement existing [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action07]
Judy: Anything else?
... Do a final editorial pass...then do a WBS form.
... Can we give it an provisional approval?
<shawn> judy: OK to go to survey, without additional discussion?
<judy> ACTION: jb complete the editorial changes on this, and bring it back only in wbs form [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action08]
<shawn> all: no objections
Judy: We want to look at the scenarios for
using the demonstrating
... People wanted help with how to use it.
Justin: What about talking about how to fix accessibility barriers?
Shadi: It is a limited repair strategy.
Shawn: Examples of an Accessible Solution
Shadi: Won't learn about how to fix...its more general
Wayne: You are demonstrating barriers plus specific solutions.
Wayne: I see what Justin is saying.
Judy: How do we capture that?
"Learning about specific Web accessibility barriers"
Shawn: We say...here's an example of what's wrong and the solution or done well.
Wayne: Accessibility barriers and solutions
Shawn: Copy the accessible form and start from
... Given the current first draft...it would be good to focus on the example ...later focus on the process
Judy: part of the whole package for the
demonstration is this evaluation report
... If you look back at our overall plan for this...it shows you how to get from point a to point b
... We don't think the subheading does it justice.
Wayne: I was thinking...we don't need web
... learning about web accessibility barriers solutions
Helle: Grab the table or the form and how to do
it the right way
... If you wanted to grab the good example form and download it use on my site
<judy> pasquale? william? wayne?
<judy> hi, wayne, any trouble re-dialing? bridge problem, sorry
Helle: made it easy to get the code that is on the bad and good site, so you don't have to go into the code and copy and paste, list them out that you could go and download afterward.
Judy: It is expanding the scope.
... Can we capture that for a wish list.
... Going back to "Learning about specific barriers and solutions"
Justin: Works for me
<shadi> changelog: (for wish list) consider providing source code examples in tutorial format
Wayne: Experiencing Specific Barriers and Solutions
Helle: It will be different what you will be learning from it.
Shadi: Learning about barriers and solutions
William: It applies general, we want to stick with specific because of the limited scope of the demonstration.
<shawn> slightly prefer learning & specific
Shadi: Let's keep experiencing in understanding implications
Judy: Anything else on the whole section
William: The Writing eval reports could get very convoluted
Judy: it has been very hard to write.
Wayne: I think what you get and what you expect match up
Shawn: What if we are more explicit in how to
... What if we changed it to be more clear...for presentations we could tell someone how to use it
Wayne: i think we can leave that to the editor's discretion
Shadi: The reason why it is so general is because it is such a wide audience. I am thinking about how to use this format for the last section...
Shawn: I am uncomfortable with using a DL for
this....we could use a list item with a dash
... On the related resources - now that we have the nav, i don't think we we need that but i don't feel strongly about it
... In general we had been taking them out
Judy: I don't think we need to discuss that.
Judy: As you know, we are schedule to meet on
Monday, Tues, and Wednesday of next week. We have a number of different docs
in EO. We are working on what we want to get que'd up
... Things have been shifting.
... Monday morning on the retrofitting.
... There are some sections marked ready for discussion
... Saturday possibly the latter part of the document will be ready as well.
... That will take us to Glossary in the afternoon.
... WCAG WG may ask us to help with some of their glossary work
... Glossary continuation on Tuesday
... Afternoon tuesday we are going to brainstorm on newbie resources.
... Wednesday is tech plenary day.
... Thursday is all overflow
Shawn: There is the list of possible additional topics
Judy: We should know by Tuesday, which we will be using from that list.
William: On Wednesday for lightning round
....there are plenty of staff and members that don't know about web
accessibility ...could we participate in the lightning rounds?
... We can find a strategy to do in-reach to the w3c on Tuesday (I think).
<shawn> ACTION: f2f discussion on newbies - inreach in W3C [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action09]
Judy: ...some work to explore combined
messaging disability community and the aging community.
... We are looking at our documents to see how we can improve the relevance to the aging community
<shawn> ACTION: f2f discussion on newbies - aging an audience [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/24-eo-minutes.html#action10]
Wayne: For those of us who can't go, what can we do to help?
Shawn: Will do best we can with minutes
Judy: this has gone through a lot. We wanted to
look at the introduction, getting started, and identifying the issues.
... How will does intro set you up for the document?
Shawn: The part in brackets are ideas. Should we put those in or not?
William: I think it helps
George: I think the "While implementing..." should be used. I think it is very good invite to read the rest of the material.
Doyle: I agree
<shawn> ACTION, changelog, retrofitting, intro: do include the sentence, "[While implementing...o verwhelming]
Judy: Anything else about the intro?
Shawn: How does the terminology work?
Judy: You will see lower down there is very different sequencing in the issues.
William: It maintains the conversational tone
Shawn: In getting started, the involving users bullet, I think the most powerful thing is to get people with disabilities use your site. Am I too biased?
William: Take the brackets off
Doyle: Works well. It stirs up images in my mind that I am familiar with. Bias isn't an issue
Wayne: What if they don't struggle?
<shawn> ACTION, changelog, retrofitting, intro: do include the sentence, "[In addition to helping identify... struggle
Judy: We have the whole involving users
... What do people think about Setting the target and communicating the status?
William: Take off the brackets
Judy: Other comments on setting the target?
<shawn> ACTION, changelog, retrofitting, intro: do include the sentence, "[Developing and adopting... take a while
Shawn: Taking off the brackets on developing and adopting?
Wayne: i think its right
Judy: Communicating the Status
William: The last sentence there is a grammatical error
Judy: Identifying the Issues section
Shawn: What about the contents of the first
... Do you agree with it?
William: I don't know if I do or not.
Wayne: I got it
William: I'm not sure if its most effective to identify
Shawn: Take out most ...maybe efficient
William: i think doing the worst problem may be more effective
Wayne: I second William.
William: It is very frequent in this world that
the good gets delayed by a search for the perfect.
... If you fix the big accessibility barriers first,, I don't see anything against that.
Shawn: I will have that in the next section
Wayne: I think what William is saying is that
you don't have to do a complete requirements analysis.
... there i this middle ground
<shawn> ACTION, changelog, retrofitting, Identifying the Issues: @@
Shawn: The other big thing...tell people you
don't have to do an analysis on every page of their site.
... I think we could put something here so that we are covering it elsewhere.
... When it gets updated in other documents, point to it...but for the time being put it here?
Judy: Thanks for the feedback
<shawn> "breezy" tone
Judy: No meeting next week
<shawn> ACTION, changelog, retrofitting, Identifying the Issues: re-consider the content of the first paragraph. maybe better more often to fix the big barriers first before evaluating more