IRC log of eo on 2006-01-20

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:21:40 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #eo

13:21:40 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/20-eo-irc

13:21:49 [Zakim]

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13:21:54 [Wayne]

Wayne has joined #eo

13:22:00 [Justin]

zakim, this will be eowg

13:22:00 [Zakim]

ok, Justin; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes

13:22:09 [Justin]

Meeting: EOWG

13:22:14 [Justin]

Chair: Judy

13:22:25 [Justin]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006JanMar/0020.html

13:22:34 [Wayne]

should I scribe?

13:23:01 [pasquale]

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13:23:08 [shawn]

shawn has joined #eo

13:23:15 [Justin]

Regrets: Andrew, Roberto, Liam

13:23:33 [pasquale]

hi all, good morning/afternoon

13:24:43 [Judy]

sure wayne, thanks

13:26:59 [Helle]

Helle has joined #eo

13:27:41 [Zakim]

WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started

13:27:48 [Zakim]

+Helle_Bjarno

13:28:38 [Zakim]

+Doyle_Saylor

13:29:41 [Zakim]

+Loughborough

13:30:21 [Zakim]

+Jack

13:30:56 [Zakim]

+Shadi

13:30:59 [Zakim]

+??P4

13:31:21 [Zakim]

+Shawn

13:31:22 [Wayne]

zalim, ??p4 is wayne

13:31:25 [Zakim]

+Judy

13:31:49 [barry]

barry has joined #eo

13:31:49 [Zakim]

+Justin_Thorp

13:32:05 [Zakim]

+??P7

13:32:09 [pasquale]

zakim, ??p7 is pasquale

13:32:09 [Zakim]

+pasquale; got it

13:32:17 [pasquale]

zakim, mute me

13:32:17 [Zakim]

pasquale should now be muted

13:32:34 [Zakim]

+??P8

13:33:13 [Wayne]

zakim, ??p4 is wayne

13:33:13 [Zakim]

+wayne; got it

13:33:22 [barry]

zakim,??P8 is barry

13:33:22 [Zakim]

+barry; got it

13:33:30 [Justin]

zakim, please mute me

13:33:30 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should now be muted

13:33:32 [Harvey]

Harvey has joined #eo

13:34:21 [Wayne]

Topic: Outreach Updates

13:34:29 [Jack]

Jack has joined #eo

13:35:15 [Zakim]

+Bingham

13:36:38 [Wayne]

scribe: wayne

13:36:40 [shawn]

scribenick: Wayne

13:37:43 [Wayne]

Topic: Outreach Updates

13:39:42 [Wayne]

Topic: Face-to-Face at the Technical Plenary

13:40:38 [Wayne]

Judy: Hotel deadline for the discount rate is due today. Has anyone tried that?

13:41:34 [Wayne]

Judy: Are there reservation problems? Who is potentially going.

13:42:14 [Wayne]

Helle: Sent an email without a confirmation.

13:45:40 [Wayne]

Note: There will be no refund of deposit - 3 nights. Group will hold on early reservations.

13:45:48 [Liam]

Liam has joined #eo

13:46:28 [shawn]

zakim, who is here?

13:46:28 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Helle_Bjarno, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Jack, wayne, Shadi (muted), Shawn, Judy, Justin_Thorp (muted), pasquale (muted), barry, Bingham

13:46:31 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Liam, Jack, Harvey, barry, Helle, shawn, pasquale, Wayne, Zakim, RRSAgent, Justin, Judy, shadi

13:46:55 [pasquale]

zakim, unmute me

13:46:55 [Zakim]

pasquale should no longer be muted

13:47:06 [shawn]

present: Helle_Bjarno, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Jack, wayne, Shadi, Shawn, Judy, Justin_Thorp, pasquale, barry, Bingham

13:49:39 [Zakim]

+Liam_McGee

13:49:45 [Wayne]

Topic: BAD Demo

13:50:03 [shawn]

present+ Liam_McGee

13:51:33 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2006JanMar/0022.html

13:52:16 [Wayne]

Shadi: We made tha changes to the information bar at the top. Email yesterday highlights the questions about the site.

13:54:08 [Wayne]

Shadi: There are three sites, Before looks good but not accessible, After repaired and evaluation reports for the Before page.

13:54:10 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/before/form

13:56:51 [Wayne]

Shadi: The interactivity of the form needs to be more robust eventually, but the team requests defering the behavior.

13:59:09 [Wayne]

Barry: Agrees with the time required to implement full interactivity, but we need a target page that is invoked by a submit from the form.

14:00:11 [Wayne]

Judy: Would like more than just a page that does something, not just a dummy.

14:04:01 [Wayne]

Barry: The destinatin page should echo the data submitted at least. That promptes feature creep, but it would be useful.

14:08:36 [Wayne]

Shadi: Navigation across the site. Top navigation bar, link back to the general overview, plus a description, plus a link to the evaluation report.

14:08:37 [shadi]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/Demo/before/index

14:10:14 [Justin]

zakim, please unmute me

14:10:14 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should no longer be muted

14:12:19 [Wayne]

Wayne: Thinks the meta data nav bar is useful, distinct and clear. There is no confusion between the bar on the top are distinct and easy to separate.

14:13:39 [Wayne]

Judy: Color may need to be more distinct, and copywright needs to be clear.

14:14:01 [shawn]

q+ to ask if need copyright on this page?

14:15:40 [shawn]

q-

14:17:09 [shawn]

q+ to suggest putting copyright in orange banner at the bottom (so it looks separate like the header bit at the top does)

14:17:32 [Wayne]

Judy: Thinks the actual contrast is an accessibility problem.

14:18:54 [Justin]

zakim, please mute me

14:18:54 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should now be muted

14:24:12 [Harvey]

The cheese doesn't stand alone!

14:24:25 [shawn]

ack me

14:24:25 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to suggest putting copyright in orange banner at the bottom (so it looks separate like the header bit at the top does)

14:25:25 [shawn]

q+ to ask about where the links will go. and amount of text. (in header)

14:26:03 [shawn]

ack me

14:26:03 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to ask about where the links will go. and amount of text. (in header)

14:26:08 [Wayne]

Shawn: Perhaps the page should be just labeled as a demo with out branding information. It just escapes the user from the potentially unusable content.

14:27:00 [Zakim]

-Helle_Bjarno

14:27:38 [Wayne]

Shadi: Because some pages are extremly dysfunctional, the group suggested that the top nav bar identifies the two links one for the BAD demo, and one with the problems on this page.

14:27:45 [Justin]

zakim, please unmute me

14:27:45 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should no longer be muted

14:31:28 [Wayne]

Judy: Thinks identifying what is wrong with this page is a little too much.

14:33:18 [shawn]

q+ to ask shadi about decision to not link to report & good version

14:35:02 [Wayne]

Barry: The middle sentence is unclear. The bar is needed. Refereing to it as a simple navigation bar is not accurate. It is a meta-nav bar.

14:35:19 [Justin]

zakim, please mute me

14:35:19 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should now be muted

14:36:24 [Wayne]

Shadi: The top nav-bar is diffcult and requires input.

14:37:57 [shawn]

ack me

14:37:57 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to ask shadi about decision to not link to report & good version

14:38:42 [Harvey]

tabbing seems to go to unsuspected places; it should work

14:38:50 [Wayne]

Shawn: We talked about a link to the good and evaluation from the "nav bar".

14:39:24 [shawn]

not for wordsmithing, but for concept idea: This page is part of a demonstration of accessibility barriers, described in Before and After Demonstration.<br/>

14:39:24 [shawn]

[ List of accessibility barriers on this page | Good version of this page | Evaluation report of this page ]

14:44:35 [Wayne]

Shawn: Concept: This page is part a a demonstrtion of accessibility barriers, bad reports the on this pate then evaluation.

14:45:53 [Justin]

zakim, please unmute me

14:45:53 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should no longer be muted

14:46:46 [Wayne]

Justin: Wants smaller, simpler, clearer.

14:47:55 [Wayne]

Shawn: To use in a presentation. Need a good way go back and forth from Before, After and Evaluation reports.

14:48:20 [Wayne]

Judy: What do we think of Shawn's proposal?

14:49:19 [Wayne]

Group: General assent with the constraint that smaller, clearer, simpler is valuable.

14:53:04 [Wayne]

Judy: Move to Before and After Demonstration Overview page. Consider the page carefully. Please give general reaction.

14:56:15 [Wayne]

Barry: Finds it readable. The first reaction to organization was that befor, after and evaluation sould be grouped with pages, but came to like it how it is.

14:56:45 [shawn]

q+ to say (later): flow - I would want consise list of issues, but not full eval report (I think :)

14:57:50 [Wayne]

Shawn would like a consise list of issues without full eval.

14:58:12 [shawn]

what about bolding "demonstrates common accessibility barriers using practical examples" ?

14:59:05 [Wayne]

Judy: Introductary paragraph is not connected with purpose and utility of the site.

14:59:10 [shawn]

"a repaired version of the site" - "repaired" is kinda jargony

14:59:43 [Wayne]

Judy: The contents list is also a taxonomy, but doesn't seem alive.

15:01:10 [Wayne]

William: What is this about? What is it use for? What are you going to do with this?

15:01:57 [Zakim]

-pasquale

15:02:50 [Zakim]

+??P7

15:02:55 [pasquale]

zakim, ??p7 is pasquale

15:02:55 [Zakim]

+pasquale; got it

15:04:45 [Wayne]

Shadi: Original this document was going to describe the purpose or use case for this site, but the focus changed. You have a flow from inaccessible to, report, to after page. So there are lessions to be learned from each part.

15:05:11 [Wayne]

Judy: How does the group feel about guidance on how to use the page.

15:05:35 [shawn]

ack me

15:05:35 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to say (later): flow - I would want consise list of issues, but not full eval report (I think :)

15:09:09 [Justin]

zakim, please mute me

15:09:09 [Zakim]

Justin_Thorp should now be muted

15:09:11 [Wayne]

Shawn: Basically leave organization, but have at least one possible flow (use case). In a presentation: here is this page, here are the issues...

15:09:54 [Wayne]

Shadi: Can list all issues on one page, broken down by effected demonstration page.

15:11:36 [Wayne]

Shawn: The overview page should link to every item in the demo.

15:11:57 [Wayne]

Shadi: How important are the full blown reports.

15:13:00 [shawn]

q+ to suggest 1 full-blown eval report, but not one for each page

15:14:25 [Wayne]

Judy: We have a clear set of requiremets. The change in the overview is to help think (in advance) just how to use this.

15:14:37 [shawn]

ack me

15:14:37 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to suggest 1 full-blown eval report, but not one for each page

15:15:40 [Wayne]

Shawn: 1 full blown report, but not one for each page but not for everyting. And we need to decide on the scope.

15:17:55 [Wayne]

William: Replace references to evaluatin reports with links to list of accessiblitiy barriers.

15:19:41 [Wayne]

Judy: Update - No chance of extension of lower rate. The coordinator will negotiate for a reduction in penalty. The deadline is noon EST.

15:20:53 [Wayne]

Judy: BAD Overview: Will be placed into IRC.

15:21:10 [Judy]

conceptual proposal for addition to overview page:

15:21:10 [Judy]

There are a number of resources in this demonstration, and it can be used in a variety of ways.

15:21:27 [Judy]

For instance, one can start by noticing problems on the inaccessible site, then look at how those problems are resolved on the accessible page. Or, if one is interested in learning how to do an evaluation of Web site accessibility, one could start by comparing the evaluation report with the inaccessible page, then read the recommendations for repairs in the evaluation report and compare with the results on the accessible page.

15:21:42 [Judy]

Or, if one is interested in learning how to do an evaluation of Web site accessibility, one could start by comparing the evaluation report with the inaccessible page, then read the recommendations for repairs in the evaluation report and compare with the results on the accessible page.

15:22:57 [Wayne]

Judy: this is the basic picture for orientation...

15:23:43 [Harvey]

That certainly provides focus and purpose

15:24:53 [Judy]

Or, you could start with the list of common problems, and see how they show up in the inaccessible site & the accessible site...

15:30:06 [shawn]

Please review Retrofitting Requirements doc, which has changed: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/Drafts/retrofit/retrofitting-changelog.html

15:30:42 [Wayne]

Judy and the Group: Thank You Task Force... It looks better and better!!!

15:30:58 [barry]

quit

15:30:58 [Liam]

Liam has left #eo

15:31:55 [Harvey]

Harvey has left #eo

15:31:56 [Wayne]

Wayne: Formal meeting adjourned.

15:32:02 [Zakim]

-Bingham

15:32:03 [Zakim]

-Shadi

15:32:04 [Zakim]

-barry

15:32:05 [Zakim]

-Liam_McGee

15:32:07 [Zakim]

-Justin_Thorp

15:32:08 [Zakim]

-Doyle_Saylor

15:32:09 [Zakim]

-Jack

15:32:10 [Zakim]

-Judy

15:32:11 [Zakim]

-pasquale

15:32:17 [Zakim]

-wayne

15:34:10 [Zakim]

-Loughborough

15:34:32 [Zakim]

-Shawn

15:34:33 [Zakim]

WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended

15:34:35 [Zakim]

Attendees were Helle_Bjarno, Doyle_Saylor, Loughborough, Jack, Shadi, Shawn, Judy, Justin_Thorp, pasquale, wayne, barry, Bingham, Liam_McGee

15:35:25 [Judy]

Judy has joined #eo

15:36:15 [pasquale]

bye all, have a good weekend ;-)

15:36:23 [Judy]

'bye