See also: IRC log
ok so it wasn't logging? I'll cut and past
<JR> JA: Only new column in roadmap is: Components Related
<JR> UAAG Checkpoints
<JR> JA: Hasn't send roadmap comments to PF explicitly.
<JR> JA: But received a few comments (not many)
<JR> AG: OK but you should ping AG with this.
<JR> AG: Thinks someone from UAAG should come and brief PF group.
<JR> JA: We have had a couple emails on this.
<JR> AG: Too narrow band for this.
<JR> JA: AG and JA to coord for future work
<JR> JA: Next step: review the Structural Roles table to ensure definitional alignment
<JR> between UAAG and the Roadmap
<JR> JA: Last week we were unsure of a few details.
<JR> AG: What is in draft for that section is pretty raw.
* dpoehlman has joined #ua
<JR> AG: Neither part of doc is definitive.
<JR> AG: Send a mail to xtech about structure.
<JR> action AG: send email to JA on structure
<JR> action AG : send email to JA on structure
* jallan invite rrsagent #ua
<JR> AG ACTION: send email to JA on structure
<JR> oh well
<JR> AG: to send Cathy info on joining xtech
<JR> AL: Should UA subscribe to xtech?
<JR> AG: No
<JR> AG: PF will be monitoring xtech so Cathy can send her comments to roadmap.
<JR> AG: Starts on top of roadmap -> Events -> 1.2
<JR> AG: Looking at uaag checkpoint to consider how it affects roadmap work.
<scribe> ACTION: AG to send email to JA and CL about xtech joining [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html#action01]
AG, AL: Discussion of events..
AG: Roadmap blank on ua reqs...
CL: Is AL's implementation
covered by uaag?
... Trying to figure out if anything needs to be added to uaag?
AL: Maybe could be handled by some new uaag techs?
JA: wanted to bring this uaag gap analysis back to pf
DP?: Also are there contradictions between them?
AL: No change in DOM when CSS changes.
JA: Is that not value change?
AL: What I had to do in layout
engine - when there is a re-style looks for things that were
invisible and are now visible or viceversa - if this happens
AL's system fires an MSAA event.
... But no DOM event happens. Not even a mutation event.
AL: Style change that hasn't
changed a node.
... Because style can change for reasons outside the DOM
... Against states that could disagree with reality -e.g. no focus state
AG: Should check back with PF about ua requirement that these things be generated by events.
DP: No parallel in Linux etc?
AL: Yes think there are events for show/hide.
AL: So previous discussion was on
... Does ua say anything about 3 types of nav reg, container (treeview) with internal nav, non interactive content (e.g. progress meter)
JA, CL: ua does say that all info must be available to nav
AG: Has issue with this model -
what happened in uaag dev people had lots of nav schemes - but
in end only minimum came out.
... Roadmap will support richer nav methods.
... So for TAB key is like continuous play in DAISY
... vs. structured DAISY nav
AL: Already like this - in HTML
we tab between lists and arrow within
... SR user will be informed of navigation options by the role (e.g. "listbox")
... In uaag does all interactive stuff have to be in tab order?
CL: Think uaag covers most of this nav conceptually.
JA: SR's have provided richer nav than regular ua's
AG: But should SR detect roles? Move to next same, move to next different, etc.
AL: This should actually a requirement for any new renderable markup language at w3c.
AG: DAISY has useful precedent
... eg. Help I want out of structure.
... Not just go to, but also excape from.
... scope is necessary for escaping (but not for going to)
... Is there ua-wg support for escape method?
DP: On uawg and pf
... would like to volunteer
CL: Is ecape clause in roadmap?
... it's an example of kind of thing UAWG could decide should be added to roadmap.
JA: COuld be technique in navigate structure
AL: Possible issue: need labelled
by and described by - DOM already has label-to etc
... ANything DOM lacks seems to be an issue
... Same prob in opposite direction HTML (which has label-for)
<jallan> Al: easy to go to element with id=x, but harder to go to "what points to id=x"
AG: COuld be new requirement on ua's to enrich dom with backwards relationships
AL: Do think hidden-visiblew
issue is one for ua-wg
... Special case is Alerts.
... e.g. someone filling out form.
issue DP: cue 2 issues to xtech hidden/visible, and second is escape from container
<scribe> ACTION: DP to cue 2 issues to xtech hidden/visible, and second is escape from container [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html#action02]
JA: Need to continue this
... Get sense that its too early to start building test cases.
<scribe> ACTION: AL to share 3-tier nav slides to ua-wg (on next uaag call - Dec 15) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: JA to take definitions concern to CG [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html#action04]
<jallan> emma - extensive multimodal alignment?
Jim - will you wrap up?
<jallan> scribe: Jan Richards
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127 of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <JR> * dpoehlman has joined #ua No ScribeNick specified. Guessing ScribeNick: JR Found Scribe: Jan Richards WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found. Default Present: Jim_Allan, DPoehlman, Cathy_Laws, AlGilman, Jan_Richards, +1.781.316.aaaa Present: Jim_Allan DPoehlman Cathy_Laws AlGilman Jan_Richards +1.781.316.aaaa Got date from IRC log name: 1 Dec 2005 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/12/01-ua-minutes.html People with action items: ag al dp ja WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> * dpoehlman has joined #ua WARNING: Possible internal error: join/leave lines remaining: <scribe> * dpoehlman has joined #ua WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines. You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option. WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found! Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>. Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of new discussion topics or agenda items, such as: <dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]