W3C

I18N ITS WG

14 Sep 2005

Agenda

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Diane, Felix, Goutam, Richard, Tim, Yves
Regrets
Andrzej, Christian, Karunesh, Sebastian
Chair
Yves
Scribe
Felix

Contents


Review Action Items From Last Meeting

<scribe> ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg members. (ONGOING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<scribe> ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<scribe> ACTION: CL and others to make research on data categories definitions (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<scribe> ACTION: RI to post an email to the Activity about the definition of "internationalization" and "localization" (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action04]

ri: will be sent today

<scribe> ACTION: CL to add a paragraph on the role of xml:lang to the summary section of the Language Identification requirement. (PENDING) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action05]

<http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale>

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqLangLocale?action=diff&rev2=17&rev1=16

<scribe> ACTION: FS to add a paragraph somewhere to the role of values of xml:lang in the Language Identification requirement. (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action06]

<scribe> ACTION: FS to add a reference to RFC 3066 bis to the Language Identification requirement (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action07]

<scribe> ACTION: FS to add an additional paragraph to the mapping requirement (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action08]

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqPurposeSpecMap?action=diff&rev2=15&rev1=13

<scribe> ACTION: TF to change the CDATA requirement (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action09]

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0503ReqCDATA

Tim: explains the changes

Felix: looks good

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0504ReqCulturalAspects

<scribe> ACTION: YS to add example based on Goutam input to the "Content Style" requirement (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action10]

Yves: also made some corrections recently. One comment from CL is not addressed yet.

<scribe> ACTION: YS to create wiki page for POS/related info requirement (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action11]

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0908LinguisticMarkup

Yves: feel free to comment on the wiki

Tim: I don't know
... the idea of linguistic markup seems to mean a lot of additional work
... I think you cannot convince content authors to put this information in
... of course it is useful for machine translation or terminology work
... so it is useful, but maybe not useful for us

Yves: yes
... maybe it is useful for the future
... there are many things that are specialized

felix: for the future, it might be useful

Tim: sure
... it is just more that we can do
... it might be other engineering

Richard: Maybe we can ask Goutam to spread the idea around and find other people who are interested in the solution
... it is not part of what we think about in the first phase of the ITS Working Group
... we need to ground ITS in a general requirement
... we should transcope the need first, maybe for a later project

Felix: Same opinion as Richard

<scribe> ACTION: YS to edit its prefixes in "Limited impact" requirement example (DONE) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action12]

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact

Yves: any comments?

<GoutamSaha> Every markup that ITS is adding is towards translation aids only. So, linguistic markup will be helpful for the translation process as well as for translation memory

Tim: looks fine to me

Action items for the f2f

Yves: Please think about co-editing one of the documents
... please work on the reading list
... Two action items for Yves and Felix
... to prepare "ruby" and "indicator of translatability"

on participants: http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html#Participants

Richard: will hire a car

<YvesS> http://www.w3.org/International/its/ftf-200509-Sophia.html

<scribe> ACTION: Richard to hire a car for the f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action13]

Richard: I'll arrive on Sunday and I'll leave on Thursday
... does that cause any problems?

No problems

Yves: other questions?

An additional page: http://www.w3.org/2005/08/i18n-its-f2f-logistics.html

f2t meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march 2006

Yves: we need to know if we will have a f2f during that week, and which wg we want to meet
... we meeting will be in mandelieu, quite close to ERCIM

Richard: Are we planning to have a f2f?
... technical plenary gets lots of wg together
... you get to meet other people and get them into your meeting

Yves: second question is: how many people would make it to that meeting?
... timewise that time would be nice

Tim: might be able to make it

Yves: not sure if I can make that meeting
... Diane, how about you?

Diane: I don't know either

Yves: We should try to go for it

Richard: important would be people you cannot meet easily
... e.g. the xml core people

<scribe> ACTION: Yves to sent a mail to ask people whether they would come to a f2f meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march 2006 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action14]

<scribe> ACTION: Felix to think about WGs which ITS might want to meet during the technical plenary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action15]

Richard: We should not reserve something if we are not sure

Requirements

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqAttrAndTrans

Yves: Fixing typos, changing the summary

Richard: In the first WD, we did not have a link to the document Yves and I wrote

Felix: That link must be in the WD

Yves: In the cases there you have s.t. in an attribute, should we come up with a solution?

Tim: We can make a recommendation

Richard and Felix: discussion on attributes and translatable text.

Yves: To me it looks complete, next time we should look at it.

Tim: As a requirement it is fine.

Felix: For me as well.

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqNamingScheme#preview

Yves: XForm example from the xform wg would be good
... they had some example for localization

Tim: This would only apply to well formed xml, or would the dtd have some different messages?

Yves: No, it would be just the document, without the schema
... maybe we should mention that

Tim: currently it is phrased that every dtd should follow a predictable naming pattern

<scribe> ACTION: Tim to work on the naming pattern req [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action16]

Richard: the example with buttons
... xforms tries to go away from the "look" of the user interface
... e.g. "selector" might be better than "button"

Yves: good point

<YvesS> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqWhiteSpaces

Richard: how about the bidi and the ruby one?

Yves: We discussed it when you were not here, and we thought it was good
... we solution will be difficult

Tim: Maybe we should move the potential solution to the note section
... so that people are sure that the req document does not contain solutions

<scribe> ACTION: Yves to move some of the text in the note an reword the req on whitespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action17]

Ri: there is an xml:space attribute
... we say that css should be used for handling whitespace

Yves: so that would happen only at rendering time
... so it does not solve localization issues
... the problem is that you get different types of formatting
... you get problem as you leverage that

Ri: the problem are the cases there the carriage returns is significant

Yves: the tools have to know when to normalize and when not
... in (x)html, it is clear

Ri: defining it at the schema level would be a solution, right?
... so a requirement is to define one or more elements which are able to preserve / not preserve space

Yves: we don't have a way that one should not collaps something

Ri: talks about XHTML 2 approach

Discussion about the whitespace problems

New business

No new business

Yves: see you at the f2f

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Felix to think about WGs which ITS might want to meet during the technical plenary [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: Richard to hire a car for the f2f [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action13]
[NEW] ACTION: Tim to work on the naming pattern req [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action16]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to move some of the text in the note an reword the req on whitespace [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action17]
[NEW] ACTION: Yves to sent a mail to ask people whether they would come to a f2f meeting during the technical plenary week feb - march 2006 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action14]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: CL to add a paragraph on the role of xml:lang to the summary section of the Language Identification requirement. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: CL and others to make research on data categories definitions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: FS to contact person for ATOM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: RI to contact person from W3C about feedback from non-wg members. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
 
[DONE] ACTION: FS to add a paragraph somewhere to the role of values of xml:lang in the Language Identification requirement. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: FS to add a reference to RFC 3066 bis to the Language Identification requirement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action07]
[DONE] ACTION: FS to add an additional paragraph to the mapping requirement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action08]
[DONE] ACTION: RI to post an email to the Activity about the definition of "internationalization" and "localization" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: TF to change the CDATA requirement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action09]
[DONE] ACTION: YS to add example based on Goutam input to the "Content Style" requirement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action10]
[DONE] ACTION: YS to create wiki page for POS/related info requirement [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: YS to edit its prefixes in "Limited impact" requirement example [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-i18n-minutes.html#action12]
 
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/09/28 07:17:38 $