30 Jun 2005


See also: IRC log


David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, Chris_Ridpath, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Christophe_Strobbe, Ben, Wendy, Yvette, Andi, Bengt_Farre, Matt, Tim_Boland, Alex_Li, Mike_Barta, Joe_Clark
Roberto_Castaldo, Sebastiano_Nutarelli, Luca_Mascaro, WATANABE_Takayuki, Makoto_UEKI, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Roberto_Ellero, Roberto_Scano
Andi, becky




<Andi> zakim IBM is Andi

<wendy> yvette? can you minute today?

<Yvette> sorry, I'm very tired so rather not

<Yvette> I just worked all day and had a meeting afterwards

<wendy> yvette - no worries.

<Andi> Wendy, I can take minutes

<wendy> andi - thank you.

<wendy> scribe: Andi

<David> test

Techniques Task Force update

Baseline affects which techniques are relevant at which level

leaning towards describing techniques with respect to individual technologies, not common baselines

need to close requirements document

as we approach Last Call, need to make sure that we are willing to be held to the requirements

At Last Call, if we haven't met any of the requirements, we can get bumped back in the process

action item to clean up requirements, in particular the "musts"

<Becky> scribe: becky

gv: today will focus on techniques

wc: congrats on getting the draft out!

mc: need to go thru GL comprehensively and thinking most about script techs as these are least developed
... suggest walking thru GLs and thinking about script techs
... will harvest ideas - no discusions but can note objections (w/o details) to proposed script techs

test development and techniques, priorities for next few months, requirements for Last Call and beyond

Harvest techniques and/or tests

mc: GL 1.1 SC1 - have several HTML and one CSS
... non-text content generated by script must have text alternatives is one way of thinking about

<ben> success criterion to techniques mapping - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2005/06/30-sc-techniques-mapping.html

mc: tech-nontext elements generated by script must have text alternatives

bg: tech-need to show how to properly add non-text elements that will work with AT
... clarify - add non-text elements via scripting

gv: what about using script for hiding content?

jc: that tech is often used for learning disabilities

<gregg> script used to hide text must be accounted for as well

<joeclark> but of course that also applies to HTML comments, display: none, and visibility: hidden

mc: move on to GL 1.1 SC2

<gregg> a link to a sequence of pages that provide function (for some simple function)

<Michael> describe the Becky nightmare where page has to reload over and over

<Michael> might be 4.2 stuf

bg: noted that seems like an HTML rather than script tech

mc: but is a way to provide fallback when scripting not available
... need gen. tech for what is a good alt. for functional non-text content - simple example is a calculater

gv: could provide link to server side implementation

yh: client side forms validation with server side back up

mc: see that as under another GL but log it here
... move onto sensory non-text content GL 1.1 L1 SC3

gv: text labels above and below the sensory content

mc: next: GL 1.1 L1 SC4

yh: need css tech for using images as list item bullets

tb: thought we had that tech but got rid of it

jc: css background images are being used freq now
... for decorative images

yh: can also use css for non-essential background audio

mc: would we consider no-script element with no content?

gv: putting it in a fashion so if script is not supported it just disappears
... for decorative content

mc: this becomes a tech. that just explains that you don't have to do anything (for scripting that is not essential to operation)
... GL 1.1 L1 SC 5 - currently no techs

yh: can map the same techs as for SC 3

wc: tech for meta refresh for web cams - traffic cams for ex.

mc: next - GL1.1 L3 SC1
... gen tech about what captions are and audio desc. are and how to provide
... next GL 2.1 L1 SC1
... correct - GL 1.2 L1 SC1

wc: need to provide information about caption formats
... that can be used - can link to other sites with that info

yh: can store user settings in a cookie - this can apply to several diff SC

gv: provide a script button to access the captions

<wendy> wac: link to flash techniques

<ben> should also include discussion of open captioned format alongside non-captioned

<Michael> relates to question about relationship of general to tech specific techs

GL 1.2 L1 SC2

<Andi> scribe: Andi

mc: needs techniques that describe audio descriptions and how to create them

yh: techniques for switching audio tracks

<wendy> ADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.html

wc: ADI guidelines for AD - http://adinternational.org/ADIguidelines.html

GL 1.2 L2 SC1

yh: techniques for time shifting?

gv: techniques are the same - maybe we should talk about streaming captions

wc: most RT captions are a service that you can buy

<wendy> e.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/

gv: could talk about captions being provided in a separate window
... could also talk about open captions

<wendy> internet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.html

wc: e.g. http://www.captioncolorado.com/
... internet text streaming - http://www.captioncolorado.com/products/internet.html

<scribe> ACTION: Wendy to provide some links from her research [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]

GL 1.2 L3 SC1

<gregg> link to stable site that provides description of different options for real time captioning

yh: techniques for providing sign language video

<wendy> e.g., vcom 3d http://www.vcom3d.com/

mc: techniques on picture in picture display
... SMIL techniques for sizing and positionin window

<gregg> present in separate window

wc: most of issues came from RNID
... suggests getting RNID to provide techniques

yh: techniques for where to position

GL 1.2 L3 SC2

<wendy> http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.html http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/tutorials/qtxad.html

<wendy> Creating Extended Audio Descriptions in QuickTime

mc: same as audio descriptions, SMIL 2 will have a way to pause video

wc: NCAM has lots of resources

<wendy> AD tutorials: http://ncam.wgbh.org/richmedia/strategies/XAD.php

GL 1.2 L3 SC 3

gv: techniques are the same

wc: John Slatin's performance where the audio description was scripted but done "live"

gv: radio describes - that's why lots of people listen to the radio and watch at the same time
... problems with feasibility

GL 1.3 L1 SC1

mc: have lots of HTML techniques but no general techniques
... CSS techniques around positioning, styling

bg: scripting - create elements when creating new content

yh: relationship between caption/audio description and multimedia - does that need to go here too?

GL 1.3 L1 SC2

yh: style switcher
... asterisk near required field instead of just making it red

mc: emphasis element and coloring rather than just using span with color

yh: color for headings

mc: script technique that is cautionary - don't just change the color unless also setting some structural attribute

bg: it's an issue when creating elements

bc: encoding color so that it can be programmatically determined

bg: have to specify it a certain way so that ATs can pick it up

yh: techniques for indicating correct and incorrect

dm: wrote general techniques for forms

yh: can you map one technique to two SC?

mc: yes

GL 1.3 L2 SC1

gv: choosing technologies whose players expose text attributes to AT

yh: not using CSS as the only way to indicate a blockquote

GL 1.3 L2 SC2

mc: similar to L1 techniques

GL 1.3 L3 SC1

bg: should be some script techniques but can't think of any at the moment

as: tabindex? may be covered by 2.4

yh: negative CSS technique - don't put stuff out of sequence

mc: css techniques for affecting the layout, when that fails, the order should still be relevant

yh/mc: sequences between delivery units

bg: script to provide style switcher

GL 1.4 L1 SC1

yh: css techniques for background images and colors
... css technique for layered divs

bg: script techniques for hiding them

GL 1.4 L2 SC1

gv: should have only general techniques

mc: may still be good to have html and css techniques but suggest looking at general techniques also

GL 1.4 L2 SC2

gv: if no tools a lot of this is pretty tricky

yh: link to tools

mc: tools only check - how do we tell authors what they have to do

gv: stem is the main part of the character, not the serif

mc: general techniques

GL 1.4 L2 SC3

bg: script technique with a button

yh: cookie technique that remembers settings

mc: html technique with bgsound

gv: cookie technique with a script

bc: html techniques around autoplay

GL 1.4 L3 SC1

gv: expect to lose some of these provisions when we get the final numbers

mc: css and html techniques for using foreground and background colors

mc/gv: mostly in general techniques

<Michael> make sure scripted colour changes to create violations that weren't there before

yh: script technique - moving text must have sufficient contrast with all the places it can move to

GL 1.4 L3 SC2

gv: general techniques - strategy for measuring

<David> I could also send an CD

<David> bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: Wendy to provide some links from her research [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2005/06/30 22:04:48 $

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Found Scribe: Andi
Inferring ScribeNick: Andi
Found Scribe: becky
Inferring ScribeNick: Becky
Found Scribe: Andi
Inferring ScribeNick: Andi
Scribes: Andi, becky
ScribeNicks: Andi, Becky
Default Present: David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, Chris_Ridpath, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Christophe_Strobbe, Ben, Wendy, Yvette, Andi, Bengt_Farre, Matt, Tim_Boland, Alex_Li, Mike_Barta, Joe_Clark
Present: David_MacDonald Michael_Cooper Becky_Gibson Chris_Ridpath Gregg_Vanderheiden Christophe_Strobbe Ben Wendy Yvette Andi Bengt_Farre Matt Tim_Boland Alex_Li Mike_Barta Joe_Clark
Regrets: Roberto_Castaldo Sebastiano_Nutarelli Luca_Mascaro WATANABE_Takayuki Makoto_UEKI Loretta_Guarino_Reid Roberto_Ellero Roberto_Scano
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0996.html
Got date from IRC log name: 30 Jun 2005
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html
People with action items: wendy

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