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EOWG 24 June 2005 Minutes




Shadi Abou-Zahra, Ron Armstrong, Helle Bjarno, Judy Brewer, Roberto Castaldo, Alan Chuter, Shawn Henry, Liam McGee, Doyle Saylor, Henk Snetselaar, Justin Thorp, Tanguy, Jack Welch.
Sailesh Panchang, Pasquale, Barry McMullin, William Loughborough, Sylvie Duchateau.
Judy Brewer
Alan Chuter, Justin Thorp


Outreach Updates

Helle: Asks about CEN Workshop in Paris

Judy: CEN certification workshop on web content accessibility

Judy: met in paris on wednesday

Alan: about 30 representatives

Alan: ...approved business plan for the workshop

Alan: ...met thursday morning to coordinate the task forces

Alan: ...mostly just organizing ourselves

Shadi: when CEN workshop was launched, was launched with the idea of building on top of the "UWEM" evaluation methodology

Shadi: ...Support EAM was one of the 3 WAB Cluster projects developing the UWEM

Shadi: ...UWEM was delayed therefore CEN Workshop focused mainly on business plan.

Shadi: ...and consequently the UWEM was detached from the CEN Workshop business plan...and labeled as one of the candidate evaluation methodologies

Alan: the result of what Shadi said is that certification could be done with any methodology that meets the requirements

Shadi: Main follow up from W3C/WAI perspective is to make sure that any such eval methodologies do not cause fragmentation

Roberto :)

Helle: then on behalf of WAI...

Helle: Does that mean WAI will ensure that the methodology will conform to WAI GLs

Judy: WAI has reviewed recent drafts.

Judy: Focus is to clarify what WAI materials are sources.

Shadi: WAI following developments in UWEM, and liason with certification effort.

Judy: Difficulty because UWEM is based on WCAG, may differ from intention of WG.

WAI Site Redesign

Shawn http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005AprJun/0178.html

Shawn: Dates for highlights

Shawn: Put dates at end of highlight, to indicate they are timely items.

achuter [Nobody objects]

Shawn: Placement of RSS icon

Shawn: Added W3C conformance icons at bottom of page.

Shawn: Comments welcome to task force mailing list.

Helle: Navigation, would be useful to be able to expand all menu options.

Roberto: Should be a single way of indicating links. Left-hand and right-hand menus are different.

Shawn: That's how it was in version 2. Removed links from the WAI DEvelops section, wanted to encourage people to learn to use left menu.

Liam: Use of blue, not-underlined text for both left hand menu links and ordinary text elsewhere on the page I feel is confusing.

Shawn: Will transmit comments to taskforce.

Shawn http://www.w3.org/WAI/search.php

Justin: Search led people to Google search results page. Although it has WAI logo, we thought it would confuse people.

Judy: I think people look for a textbox for a search.

achuter [others agree]

Shawn: How about an image of a textbox, like an icon (this was because don't want people to jump directly to Google page outside site without warning)

Helle: In search options, scope is not clear.

Shawn: The WAI option searches for text "WAI" in the document. Confident it will show up all documents

Shawn: The WAI keyword is an interim solution. To do otherwise would be too time-consuming as documents are not all under /WAI.

Shadi did you consider including all /WAI and all /TR?

Judy: Other comments about search?

Liam: Why is there an intermediate page between home and search?

Shawn: Just a temporary thing; will be taken out.

Helle zakim unmute me

Shawn: Need more wording of search page, for taskforce.

Judy: Suggest, "...searches most WAI pages. Not necesarily all documents may appear in the results."

Judy: "However, if what you're looking for doesn't appear, use full w3.org option". Give an alternative.

Helle: Can be worded in a more positive way?

Shawn: Can we let taskforce work on it and come back later?

achuter [No objections]

Evaluation Resource Suite

Shadi: The evalutation resource suite was until now was one long doc. We decided to split up those approaches into separate documents. After the redesign we will review and expand on some of those resources.
... We are looking at the different eval approaches and splitting them into different documents.
... If someone lands on the prelim page, does the intro work enough for that person?
... Does overview reflect the background?

Shawn http://www.w3.org/WAI/ut3/eval/Overview.html

Shawn: it says this document outlines...change to this series of documents
... We shouldn't need to link to a WAI resources page in the intro.
... the IA should lead people to exploring and finding things on the page.

Helle: How much more are we going to write on this doc?

Shadi: Intro & Benefits

Helle: Changing This document to these documents

Shadi: at face to face we talked about having a benefits paragraph.
... any volunteers to draft?

Judy: Shadi do you want to take what Chuck wrote and work on it?

Shadi: Yes
... Let's look at the intro of preliminary document
... Is this document good as a standalone?

Judy: Weren't there some detailed changes in the log that were going to be made?

Shadi: I think we handled them.

Judy: Is the precaution in the beginning sufficiently blatant?
... How do we make it stand out?

Liam: You could reverse the words on the page.

Jack: You could start it with a negative and still make it a positive...it'd still be negative

Judy: I want the cautions to be very clear.

Shawn: Could say...a conformance review is required to catch...

Henk: Prelim may not cover all checkpoints.

Roberto We could say: "A preliminary review is a starting step that may help to quickly identify the scope of problems on a Web site"

Justin: I remember different titles.

Judy: Some of those minutes got lost.

Shawn: I have those pieces of paper.
... Shadi has the flip chart pages from face to face meeting in Boston.

Shadi: Conformance won out over technical because there was no strong opinion.
... Conformance is used a lot more

Judy: Thought we would bring that back to EO
... We may need to come back to the naming of this

Helle: Are you going to write more about how to collect a sample of pages?

Judy: I am hoping that the work of the WAB cluster will help with that.

Shadi: That makes sense to me.
... What I have done in some of the docs...I have taken out references to the current existing tools and talk more about general tools.
... We are making the list sortable.

Judy: I have been talking about it as a suite.... it may be a shame... I think it is good as a package.
... Do we want to move away from calling it a suite?

Shadi: With the great navigation it looks like a set of documents...and its clearer then before.

great nav :)

Judy: It seems like when we are on the sub pages we are not referring to it as part of a suite

Judy: Looking for mention of a suite.

Shawn: Mabye change evauating overview to eval resource suite.
... In the buisiness case we said this is a part of a series of documents.

Judy: Would it make sense to call it a suite?

Henk: It looks like it is a suite. Like one set of documents.

Shadi: On the conformance page, I'd like comments on the first two paragraphs
... It also explains the usage of the word conformance here.

Pasqaule: I think the preliminary review, the users don't need to know web markup language. In the conformance should say we need to know markup language.

Roberto I'm Roberto, Pasquale is not here today :)

Henk: It's covering all check points in the conformance...in the preliminary documents it's not covering all checkpoints


Shawn: we said we wanted to look at different fonts and case issues
... it will have an arc and it will have orange or blue
... but i want to know about capitalization and font

Doyle: In 19 the WAI is too crowded...in 9 the lettering is too small

Jack: 16 looks the cleanest to me... I like the font

Doyle: I agree with Jack

Henk: I was looking at the hmpg with the new logos...the form for WAI and it was different then W3C... it looks like I landed at a web site for two different companies.
... maybe the font should be similiar to W3C to emphasize as it is one organziation.
... Now it looks like 2 separate logos.

Judy: Are there any on this page that you feel comfortable with?

Henk: I like 19 because of the font...it is a bit cluttered.
... 16 is most clear all though it is lower case.

Judy: Can we get Shawn and spread and open them up a bit.

Henk; 3 in previous iterations is more like W3C

Helle: I like the lowercase fonts better then the upper case ones.
... I like #15

Roberto: I don't like italics
... I don't like 16, 17, 19 b/c of italics... I like 6

Justin: I don't like italics... I like 6

Judy: I like the 19... I like the italics

Before and After site redesign

Judy: I did some revisions... I sent out an email last night with task force work statement
... I am expecting some people might come in from out side of the WG.

Roberto Bye everybody :-)

Helle bye

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: shawn edit minutes :/ [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/24-eo-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]