al: http-range is resolved! :)

tom: i presented on skos and vm at recent german sw meeting
... people responded well to idea of a language that existing thesauri could be exposed via

oh, in vienna

german/austrian w3c office

all day event yesterday

peter v from progos.hu was there, presenting too

http://internetalchemy.org/2005/06/victory

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jun/0039.html

danbri: [explains http-range decision and his view re relation to bp work]

tom: could we retire the hashless note from our work list?

<aliman> +1

<tbaker> include in VM note an explanation of how to implement redirects when using hashless URIs

note is that this is on the assumptoin that rdfs/owl properties + classes are not themselves info resources

(the hashless note was an attempt to argue that they are; but now not so urgent to explore that option)

al: could we have a section at top of basic principles note, 'bp for naing xyz with htttp uris'
... and say 'if using # do this, if using / do that'
... postpone for now q of whether its an info resource

tom: in spirit of alistair's previous comments, not trying to avoid things that'll potentially confuse, no need to argue whether an info-resource or not

danbri: agree, thats why hashless doc was a separeate note

alistair: now we have a tag position, i'd like to update skos core guide, and say 'heres how a skos concept should behave, in case of it being a hash, versus a slash'
... but something like that in the vm note, for classes and for properties

<tbaker> <dc:description xml:lang="en-US">The Dublin Core Element Set v1.1 namespace provides URIs for the Dublin Core Elements v1.1. Entries are declared using RDF Schema language to support RDF applications.</dc:description

<scribe> ACTION: danbri try find out how many of the / namespaces use redirect at moment (and who might change first) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-vmtf-minutes.html#action01]

dublin core does redirect; foaf used to, and should.

all purl.org namespaces redirect (sometimes to something without a #)

<tbaker> <dc:title xml:lang="en-US">The Dublin Core Element Set v1.1 namespace providing access to its content by means of an RDF Schema</dc:title>

alistair: can the thing redirected _to_ do content negotiation?

danbri: i don't know

alistair: ...have some MAYs and SHOULDs

<tbaker> is the idea that you are redirecting to a document?

<tbaker> danbri: dc:title redirects to dublincore.org/terms#title

yup

<tbaker> s/dc:/http:\/purl.org\/dc\/elements/

i think both designs are consistent with their decision, but emphasis is on the vocab-describing document that you point off to, being an info resource

(and hence per al's point, reasonable to conneg it)

tom: current dc namespace used this sentence from Roland, "The Dublin Core Element Set v1.1 namespace provides URIs for the Dublin Core Elements v1.1. Entries are declared using RDF Schema language to support RDF applications"
... q is 'what is the title of the thing that you're retrieving'

[discussion of who might take an action]

tom: lets add a placeholder into the note

"Best Practice for naming RDF and OWL vocabulary with HTTP URIs"

<tbaker> Best practices for http behavior of classes and properties

(would cite TAG decision http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jun/0039.html)

<tbaker> ACTION (Tom): add reference to TAG decision and "best practices"... (see above)

<tbaker> danbri: notion of "information resource" is appealed to in TAG finding

<tbaker> if you have namespace documents

http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#pr-namespace-documents

<tbaker> at the moment, they say "should make available material for people..."

<tbaker> mention OWL, etc.

<tbaker> section 2.2 as well

in http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#pr-namespace-documents

they define 'information resource'

[[

By design a URI identifies one resource. We do not limit the scope of what might be a resource. The term "resource" is used in a general sense for whatever might be identified by a URI. It is conventional on the hypertext Web to describe Web pages, images, product catalogs, etc. as “resourcesâ€. The distinguishing characteristic of these resources is that all of their essential characteristics

can be conveyed in a message. We identify this set as “information resources.â€

]]

<tbaker> if we try to gloss for RDF and OWL community, given Roy doc, will need to point to namespace document (webarch)

http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-webarch-20041215/#id-resources

<tbaker> these three cites will give our advice some authority

<tbaker> need to be linked to it in some way

<tbaker> people know this is a confusing area

<tbaker> given this decision, in the end it is quite simple

<tbaker> it's just defining our terms

<tbaker> rather than define "info resource" ourself, can use tag architecture link

<tbaker> issues list not updated yet

danbri: maybe VM TF could do outreach to major namespace owners, to get them to use more OWL, etc
... and use that to drive OWL adoption, and have others in SWBPD WG adress OWL Full vs OWL Lite

tom: a proposal to dc-architcture could address some of that
... but we'd have legacy issues if we substantially changed the model

<tbaker> danbri: owl has mechanisms for saying "if you see this property, can expect it to point to..."

<tbaker> DC currently has both idioms

dc: creator pointing to a literal string, for eg

tom: awkward as we have a recommendation that uses strings
... want to be more consistent in advocating resources there
... that legacy spec is an awkward

<tbaker> danbri: do outreach to vocab communities - but in a second step, after this current note is done

<aliman> will plug in my skos bits to the note asap

danbri: having the http range decision

next meeting, 5th july - same time

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and $Log: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v $

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and Revision 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and [RRSAgent] sync

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and Revision 1.17 2005/06/21 14:01:34 swick

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and [RRSAgent] sync

in cvs, you can put $Id: 21-vmtf-irc.txt,v 1.18 2005/06/21 14:58:16 swick Exp $ and in the doc, and CVS committer will do substitutions

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.126  of Date: 2005/05/16 16:49:48  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/dc:/http:\/purl.org\/dc\/elements/
No ScribeNick specified.  Guessing ScribeNick: danbri
Inferring Scribes: danbri

WARNING: No "Topic:" lines found.


WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: al aliman alistair danbri dc tbaker tom
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        <dbooth> Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        <dbooth> Present+ amy


WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 21 Jun 2005
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2005/06/21-vmtf-minutes.html
People with action items: danbri

WARNING: No "Topic: ..." lines found!  
Resulting HTML may have an empty (invalid) <ol>...</ol>.

Explanation: "Topic: ..." lines are used to indicate the start of 
new discussion topics or agenda items, such as:
<dbooth> Topic: Review of Amy's report