22 Mar 2005



Johannes, Chrisoula, Shadi, AndrewK, Chris, Wendy, Sandor, Jim, CarlosI, Gabriele
Charles, Sailesh, Myriam, Jim


Reflections on EARL from CSUN

 SAZ: talks about CSUN

about EARL business case

SAZ: why should somebody implement EARL?
... updated accessibility logos
... add EARL report to logo
... some tool developers are not yet convinced

CR: conformance claim with EARL would be better
... indicate what has been checked during test

which Andrew? AA or AWK?

<shadi> AWK

<Zakim> wendy, you wanted to say, "concern i heard was about making more earl"

WAC: rise awareness of EARL
... chicken and egg
... like little RSS logos

CR: link to validator like Markup validator

<AWK> AWK: pondering what interests may exist that actively don't want a more comprehensive logo with EARL. If such exist we'll need to figure out how to counter

SAZ: updated test results like markup conformance claims

AWK: we cannot solve this problem
... in Firefox you have a button in the GUI for RSS

SAZ: add logo use case to use case scenarios

<AWK> AWK: it would be interesting to have an analogous item (to the firefox RSS button) for accessibility claims

<Zakim> wendy, you wanted to ask, "could you have valid earl that is not valid rdf? just use rdf validator?"

<wendy> http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/

CR: accessibility check linked to logo, not validated EARL

SAZ: does RDF validator validate against RDF schema?
... don't think so

WAC: no validation against RDF schema

<shadi> ACTION: johannes add another use case / scenario for EARL as page profile [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/22-er-minutes.html#action01]

JK: does Jena validate against RDF schema

SAZ: not by default

<wendy> validating rdf parser:

<ChrisR> http://checker.atrc.utoronto.ca/errorid.html

Describing the Location of Test-Subjects

CR: use xpath for documents that don't change
... fuzzy way of identifying things for changing documents
... need context, not only current element
... are there any more use cases?

CA: would xpointer be sufficient for context information?

CR: xpointer will be invalid for changing documents
... will post more details about fuzzy techniques

SAZ: different checkpoints have different requirements
... pointing and persistency are interrelated
... xpointer only work on XML documents

CR: only need valid documents

WAC: what about modified DTDs?
... XHTML is not required
... publicly available schema/DTD is required in WCAG

SAZ: we cannot assume validity or even well-formedness because this is one of the checks
... use IDs?

GB: multi-level way of locating
... fuzzy pointers based on various techniques (xpointer, fuzzy, IDs)

CR: good idea
... different strategies needed

SAZ: two dimensions: 1. locating strategy, 2. tests (context sensitive/insensitive)


CI: problem is what are we identifying?
... most content is dynamic

CR: cache image somewere? is impractical

JK: image changes, image URL and context remains the same

GB: use more properties: MD5 hash

SAZ: any time someone proposes a solution, aonther talks about exceptions
... objects/applets, CSS background?
... visual/markup structure
... tables with captions may be moved within a documents, images may not
... for different problems we need different solutions

CA: consistency over time, consistency within context

SAZ: change overtime is very important

CA: context: does moving an element change accessibility status?

SAZ: maybe

CA: store document fragment structure around element
... group of links, provide skip-over
... need for structure information

... skip-over link use location of first link

CA: use only one location for each accessibility problem?

CR: no
... we need to keep in mind
... information about dependencies is in the test case

<wendy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/test178.html

WAC: use context information in xpath expression

SAZ: how to help web developers location of problem? line/column number?
... complicated xpointer? not developer-friendly
... message oriented location? machine-readable thing?
... homework: top 3
... next meeting is right after easter, how many people can be present?

Discussion to be continued on next call

Conformance to EARL

Discussion postponed to next call

<shadi> rrsagent make minutes

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: johannes add another use case / scenario for EARL as page profile [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/22-er-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.117 (CVS log)
$Date: 2005/03/22 20:15:52 $