WCAG WG weekly telecon

17 Feb 2005



Wendy, [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, Mike, [IPcaller], Chris, Ben, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt, Fantasai_Rainne, Matt, David, Neil_Soiffer, Becky_Gibson, [ATTcaller], Doyle
Gregg_Vanderheiden, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Kerstin_Goldsmith, John_Slatin, Alan_Chuter, Roberto_Castaldo, WATANABE_Takayuki, Roberto_Ellero, Roberto_Scano, Sailesh_Panchang, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid_(partial), Becky_Gibson_(partial), Luca, Mascaro, Avi_Arditti




<wendy> sheesh! who's left?


<wendy> looks like a short meeting. :)


<scribe> scribe: Ben

Techniques Task Force Summary

mc: TTF summary

working on test files, each memeber of group taking a small batch and posting comments to the list

has been helpful in raising issues - we were able to make decisions about many of the test files

1.0 to 2.0 mapping http://tinyurl.com/68ahx

wc: have already reviewed levels 1 and 2

still need to work through level 3

WCAG 1.0 9.4 Create a logical tab order through links, form controls, and objects.


wc: doesn't seem to map to 2.1 (keyboard or keyboard interface)
... propose that we map to 2.4, level 3, item 2

WCAG 1.0 9.5 Provide keyboard shortcuts to important links (including those in client-side image maps), form controls, and groups of form controls.

wc: not clear if this maps to 2.1 or 2.4
... think the problem is that we've had issues with accesskey, which may be more of a user agent issue
... may not be a direct mapping anymore
... should we still be saying anything about this?

mm: I think so, but as generically as possible

<bengt> the links in the priorities doesnt point to anything ?

wc: think tabindex may be covered by previous SC - enough to map to guideline 2.4 (skipping blocks of repeated material)

ns: how does a user know about these?

mm: in XHTML 2, there will be an element that can be declared elsewhere in the document, so no accesskey attribute. Essentially provides a keybinding for the document in question.

lgr: feels like this isn't a 2.1 issue, but about practically functional - possible to operate via keyboard but also needs to be unduly burdensome?

mb: seems to line up with 2.1, level 3

lgr: you could provide this kind of functionality without meeting this requirement

mb: we're looking at limitations of phrasing in WCAG 1.0

lgr: disagree
... definition of what is important has always gotten us into trouble (ex. it doesn't say provide keyboard shortcuts to everything)

wc: wonder if it's related to blocks of material and other types of structure we have in 2.0
... sounds like there are serveral issues on this and that there is no clear mapping, may want to consider adding a success criterion or modifying existing criterion
... HTML technique for accesskey maps to 2.1 level 1
... doesn't look like we can resolve today
... ~6 issues related to accesskeys in HTML techs

dm: has anyone used accesskeys successfully?

wc: numbers and some letters can be used successfully in some cases

WCAG 1.0 11.3 Provide information so that users may receive documents according to their preferences (e.g., language, content type, etc.)

wc: seems most related to 3.1, level 1, item 1


wc: other places to map?

not just providing language information, but allowing people to get it

wc: conformance claims talk about multiple representations and conformance claims for delievered units - seems like we're assuming negotiation is happening, but not requiring it
... do we need to be more specific about this (in addition to what is said in conformance)
... looks like we're handling this in conformance, doesn't look like there is a good match for it in WCAG 2.0

WCAG 1.0 13.5 Provide navigation bars to highlight and give access to the navigation mechanism.

wc: 2.0 doesn't really talk about navigation bars anymore
... instead we talk about dividing things into pieces that can be navigated through providing structure
... seems that essence is there, but no match to anything specific

bg: does that suggest a need to expand level 2 success criterion 1?


bg: suggests replacing table of contents with navigation mechanism
... does that help it map better?

<Doyle> hand up

wc: 1.0 checkpoint shows what the nav mechanism is and 2.4 level 2, item 1 is about navigating structure of a document
... 1.0 checkpoing was focused on sitewide navigation

bg: hard to map directly, because navigation bar is so specific

<Doyle> hand down

wc: would be mapping a 1.0 priority 3 to 2.0 level 2
... leave this as a note for andi

WCAG 1.0 13.7 If search functions are provided, enable different types of searches for different skill levels and preferences.

wc: seems to map to 2.5 level 3, item 2


dm: doesn't seem like a match

wc: there's a sentence in the core techniques about search techniques that don't require perfect spelling, so spelling part of this was one of the key pieces
... seems to map to both leve 3 criterion in 2.5

dm: are they talking about advanced search in google?

wc: no, more toward google spelling correction suggestions

<ChrisR> Bye for now, gotta run.

wc: there are a variety of other search techniues where you could get help prompts, spelling is one, but others don't seem to map to 2.0

lgr: agree that what we have now maps to both level 3 items, but it is only a subset of what was required in 1.0

wc: do we want to include more in 2.0 about some of those other options?
... for now, we can say it maps to some, but not all

ns: does it also map to 2.4 level 2 item 2?

wc: good point because it does highlight other ways to find things

bc: that works

wc: looks like we could dig deeper to include all that was in 1.0, but that these 3 criterion (2 at level 3 and one at level 2) cover it fairly well
... example of boolean search could address more advanced levels, but not sure how it fits for helping generate search terms

mb: are we making recommendations about features for applications?

wc: my understanding is that what we're saying is that we don't want to be as specific as we were in 1.0

<Becky_Gibson> sorry, I have to leave today

WCAG 1.0 13.8 - 13.8 Place distinguishing information at the beginning of headings, paragraphs, lists, etc.

wc: seems most related to 3.1, level 3, number 3 (reducing complexity) - we could suggest adding that as one of those strategies

dm: I think it's a good strategy to add there

bg: agree

WCAG 1.0 13.9 Provide information about document collections (i.e., documents comprising multiple pages.)

wc: mostly about link rel/rev etc.

bc: not clear how we cover site maps anymore - depends on def. of document (ex. a multi-page document?)

wc: we've focused in on delivery units - ex slideshow that is single document with multiple perceivable units

bc: agree that it maps to 2.4 level 2, item 2

WCAG 1.0 13.10 Provide a means to skip over multi-line ASCII art.

wc: does it map to guideline 1.1, level 1, item 4?


wc: possible interp would be that ASCII art is non-text that should be skipped

dm: agree

bc: what about 2.4 criterion on skipping repetitive info? expand to include nonsensical information?

wc: which do people prefer? some combination of level 1 criterion (at level 1) or someplace in 2.4 (at level 2)

lgr: think the original intention was that people provide a link that would be appropriate for skipping.

wc: this also sounds like a good issue for techniques group
... comment from IBM that talks about definition of non-text content and questions whether ASCII art should be included

mc: in some techniques discussions, we've debated whether to talk about ASCII art at all anymore, but no agreement at this point.
... we could fail to acknowledge it and suggest replacing with an image

mm: if I were king of the world, I'd suggest taking a picture of your ascii art and adding a text alternative

wc: still have an HTML technique for this - recommend avoiding ASCII, but if used, provide a link to skip.

mc: sounds like two techniques with an or relationship

wc: we have a couple ways we could map this - main issue is whether we feel that this is a level 1 or level 2 kind of thing

WCAG 1.0 1.5 Until user agents render text equivalents for client-side image map links, provide redundant text links for each active region of a client-side image map.

mc: recent test file discussion, we felt it should be deprecated

bc: sounds like a WCAG 1.0 errata candidate

WCAG 1.0 5.6 Provide abbreviations for header labels.

wc: html technique related to making data tables accessible that relates

mc: issue with abbreviating labels?

wc: yes, this gives header labels a short handle

mc: seems inconsistent to say that you should provide less information

wc: if reading a long table and having heading read, it makes sense to read the abbreviation
... probably a user agent issue

lgr: I don't think it maps to the 3.1 criterion

mc: seems to fit under 2.4

wc: andi had suggested 1.3
... seems like it should map to 2.4, no SC

mc: would map to 2.4 about skipping blocks, maybe adapt this criterion for this purpose as well?

wc: not a whole lot else on our agenda today


(link to open issue summaries)

wc: recent comments may have created new issues for some guidelines

here's the right URI for open issue summary assignments: http://tinyurl.com/49x4c

wc: some issues are assigned to "nobody" or "someone"
... these are available for people to write proposals on
... some are straightforward and others are more complicated
... today's agenda was a little sparse, partly because of number of regrets, partly because we're waiting on these issue summaries
... link to first quarter 2005 planning on home page
... changes to most recent draft were limited, we really need to focus on closing issues

<wendy> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes wendy

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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Found Scribe: Ben
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Default Present: Wendy, [Microsoft], Michael_Cooper, Mike, [IPcaller], Chris, Ben, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Bengt, Fantasai_Rainne, Matt, David, Neil_Soiffer, Becky_Gibson, [ATTcaller], Doyle
Present: Wendy [Microsoft] Michael_Cooper Mike [IPcaller] Chris Ben Loretta_Guarino_Reid Bengt Fantasai_Rainne Matt David Neil_Soiffer Becky_Gibson [ATTcaller] Doyle
Regrets: Gregg_Vanderheiden Andi_Snow-Weaver Kerstin_Goldsmith John_Slatin Alan_Chuter Roberto_Castaldo WATANABE_Takayuki Roberto_Ellero Roberto_Scano Sailesh_Panchang Yvette_Hoitink Loretta_Guarino_Reid_(partial) Becky_Gibson_(partial) Luca Mascaro Avi_Arditti
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005JanMar/0480.html

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<dbooth> Date: 12 Sep 2002

People with action items: 

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