IRC log of webont on 2003-09-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:01:01 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:01:18 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #webont
16:01:22 [sandro]: zakim, who is here?
16:01:22 [Zakim]: sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
16:01:23 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:01:29 [sandro]: zakim, this is webont
16:01:29 [Zakim]: ok, sandro
16:01:30 [sandro]: zakim, who is here?
16:01:30 [Zakim]: On the phone I see ??P8, ??P13, Sandro
16:01:31 [Zakim]: On IRC I see Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:01:31 [Zakim]: +??P38
16:01:55 [Zakim]: +[INRIA]
16:01:56 [Zakim]: +??P41
16:02:38 [sandro]: zakim, mute ??P8 temporarily
16:02:38 [Zakim]: ??P8 should now be muted
16:02:44 [Guus]: zakim, ??p8 is Guus
16:02:44 [Zakim]: +Guus; got it
16:02:49 [sandro]: zakim, ??P13 is JJC
16:02:49 [Zakim]: +JJC; got it
16:02:53 [Zakim]: Guus should now be unmuted again
16:02:58 [baget]: baget has joined #webont
16:03:17 [Zakim]: +Jeff_Heflin
16:03:30 [sandro]: zakim, who is here?
16:03:30 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Guus, JJC, Sandro, ??P38, [INRIA], ??P41, Jeff_Heflin
16:03:32 [Zakim]: On IRC I see baget, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:03:34 [Zakim]: -Guus
16:03:34 [DanC]: DanC has joined #webont
16:03:56 [Zakim]: +DanC
16:04:21 [pfps]: pfps has joined #webont
16:04:48 [Zakim]: +Deb_Mcguinness
16:04:51 [Zakim]: -DanC
16:04:56 [sandro]: zakim, P??41 is PeterPS
16:04:56 [Zakim]: sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P??41'
16:05:09 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:09 [Zakim]: On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, ??P38, [INRIA], ??P41, Jeff_Heflin, Deb_Mcguinness
16:05:21 [sandro]: zakim, ??P41 is Peter
16:05:21 [Zakim]: +Peter; got it
16:05:23 [DeborahMc]: DeborahMc has joined #webont
16:05:28 [Zakim]: +Mike_Dean
16:05:53 [Zakim]: +DanC
16:06:21 [Zakim]: +??P21
16:06:27 [sandro]: Zakim, ??P38 is Yasser_Alsafadi
16:06:27 [Zakim]: +Yasser_Alsafadi; got it
16:06:42 [sandro]: zakim, ??P21 is Guus
16:06:42 [Zakim]: +Guus; got it
16:06:46 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:46 [Zakim]: On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, Yasser_Alsafadi, [INRIA], Peter, Jeff_Heflin, DanC, Deb_Mcguinness, Mike_Dean, Guus
16:07:21 [sandro]: zakim, [INRIA] is Jean-Francois
16:07:21 [Zakim]: +Jean-Francois; got it
16:08:07 [DanC]: ok, I'll scribe...
16:08:12 [DanC]: agenda + 18Sep http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0193.html
16:08:19 [DanC]: Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:08:19 [Zakim]: On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, Yasser_Alsafadi, Jean-Francois, Peter, Jeff_Heflin, DanC, Deb_Mcguinness, Mike_Dean, Guus
16:08:30 [Zakim]: +??P39
16:08:34 [DanC]: DanC has changed the topic to: chair: guus; scribe: DanC
16:08:55 [DanC]: regrets: Horrocks, MarwanS
16:09:19 [DanC]: re minutes: White was there.
16:09:22 [DanC]: as was Guus
16:09:36 [DanC]: RESOLVED: to accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0163.html as ammended
16:10:06 [DanC]: Guus: telcon frequency...
16:10:40 [Zakim]: +??P48
16:10:57 [DanC]: ... dependency on RDF Core likely to mean telcons thru December, so we think bi-weekly is better for maintaining participation
16:14:00 [DanC]: RESOLVED: to meet biweekly henceforth
16:14:13 [DanC]: ... schedule for the next few weeks to appear in telcon minutes
16:15:59 [DanC]: PROPOSED: to meet 2 Oct, 9 Oct, 30 Oct
16:16:13 [DanC]: so RESOLVED.
16:17:45 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/Press/ ... maybe
16:17:57 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/Press/Articles-2003.html this one
16:19:32 [DanC]: e.g.
16:19:34 [DanC]: Internetnews.com [12 September]
16:19:34 [DanC]: "Semantic Web: Out of the Theory Realm" , Michael Singer, W3C, RDF, XML, Semantic Web, OWL, Eric Miller
16:19:56 [DanC]: so this completes ACTION DanC: summarize OWL press coverage
16:20:19 [DanC]: DanC: the comm team tracks mentions of W3C in the press, with some keywords
16:20:37 [DanC]: @@more on what I said
16:20:47 [DanC]: JJC: I've been asked to do a presentation...
16:20:49 [Zakim]: +[EDS]
16:21:08 [DanC]: Charles: xfront.com was paid for by DAML...
16:21:33 [DanC]: DanC: I've seen the xfront thing; I don't endorse it...
16:22:07 [DanC]: PFPS: I'm not sure about the xfront thing either... I and [?] are giving a tutorial at ISWC
16:22:41 [DanC]: [... missed some stuff about xfront...]
16:23:46 [DanC]: Guus: both Jim and I have slides, but they're not very technical. I'm willing to send a pointer...
16:24:15 [pfps]: [?] is Ian Horrocks and Sean Bechofer
16:24:24 [DanC]: DanC: I guess I'll make an OwlTalks wiki topic and see it grows
16:24:33 [DanC]: DebM: I've used the daml.org collection [of talks?]
16:24:45 [sandro]: (Should the list of implementations be called OwlWalks ? :-)
16:25:33 [DeborahMc]: http://www.daml.org/briefings/ is the resource i mentioned
16:25:48 [DanC]: thx, deb and PFPS
16:27:48 [DanC]: DebM: I think DAML paid for BBN to maintain http://www.daml.org/briefings/ ... you might consider that
16:28:32 [DanC]: MikeD: future funding for this is somewhat grey... OWL is a little broader than DAML... the Wiki sounds interesting...
16:29:37 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: see whether ontoweb can provide some support for OWL outreach
16:29:50 [DanC]: ACTION MikeD: see whether DAML can provide some support for OWL outreach
16:30:20 [DanC]: DanC: note W3C has to be fair about what it endorses
16:31:16 [DanC]: wiki proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0201.html
16:34:00 [DanC]: MikeS: [... not sure I understood it ...]
16:34:51 [DanC]: DebM: the ones I've found useful are ones where people took an active ownership role...
16:35:03 [DanC]: ... active recruiting etc.
16:35:31 [DanC]: Guus: I like an edited resource perhaps supplemented by the wiki; I'm considering volunteering... maybe with one or two other people...
16:36:32 [DanC]: DebM and MikeS express hesitant interest...
16:38:53 [DanC]: [... discussion of http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?CommunityLifeCycle ... ]
16:39:28 [DanC]: [... discussion of getting together at ISWC ...]
16:39:53 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: organize FAQ/guideline maintenance discussion at ISWC
16:40:50 [DanC]: --- 2.3.x Status OMG UML Profile for OWL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0053.html
16:41:02 [DanC]: Guus: there are 3 proposals... anybody familiar with any of them?
16:41:20 [DanC]: DebM: I'm somewhat familiar with the sandpiper[?] proposal
16:41:48 [DanC]: [ah... Sandpiper Software, Inchttp://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?ad/03-08-06]
16:42:29 [DanC]: Guus: would feedback be good? what's the proper channel?
16:42:36 [DanC]: Deb: yes...
16:42:47 [DeborahMc]: feedback for the sandpiper proposal should go to elisa kendall kendall@sandsoft.com
16:43:19 [DanC]: Guus: Revised Submissions are due 27 October
16:43:37 [DanC]: Guus: is that when one gets chosen?
16:43:41 [DanC]: DebM: that looks likely
16:44:16 [DanC]: DebM: [... more on OMG process... not sure I got it...]
16:45:00 [DanC]: MikeD: how much OWL do the support? e.g. subPropertyOf?
16:45:16 [DanC]: DebM: one of the things I like about the sandpiper proposal is thier support of subPropertyOf
16:45:54 [DanC]: ... I gather subProperty is under consideration for future versions of UML
16:47:09 [DanC]: Guus: do we need to review this, as a WG?
16:47:23 [DanC]: DanC: I like to keep the SemWeb CG aware of liaison issues
16:48:00 [DanC]: Guus: seems good to make sure other stds. body's work doesn't limit the use of OWL [something like that?]
16:48:19 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: solicit advice on reviewing OMG proposals from SemWeb CG
16:49:20 [DanC]: -----
16:49:34 [DanC]: Guus: other connections to discuss? e.g. I'd like to discuss MPEG connection...
16:51:08 [DanC]: DanC: there's some SMPTE thing that might be relevant and urgent... sorry I'm disorganized
16:51:25 [DanC]: ---- 3. CR/PR ISSUES (15-25 min)
16:51:30 [sandro]: ack sandro
16:51:46 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION Sandro: send email (rdf-interest, rdf-logic)
16:51:52 [DanC]: DONE: hendler/pellet
16:52:09 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION: Ian Horrocks - Report Cerebra and Racer status
16:52:17 [sandro]: ack sandro
16:52:41 [DanC]: ACTION: Sandro - Report reasoning status re useful subsets of OWL Full. (done)
16:52:50 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION: Jim Hendler - Check with Bijan re owl syntax checkers passing ...
16:52:51 [sandro]: my announce e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2003Sep/0138.html
16:53:11 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION JimH: check process doc re: features at Risk (cf reply to agenda).
16:53:52 [DanC]: ---- 3.2 Comments on CR docs
16:54:52 [DanC]: -- datatype mapping rules
16:59:35 [DanC]: JJC: I could clarify with some tests
16:59:47 [DanC]: ACTION JJC: add clarifying tests to OWL test repository
17:00:53 [DanC]: -- InverseFuncProp
17:02:01 [DanC]: PROPOSED: "The translation rule for individualvaluedPropertyID should be changed to make its first triple be optional if there is... " per 0181
17:02:07 [DanC]: ... and add tests
17:02:21 [DanC]: so RESOLVED. ACTION PFPS edit S&AS; JJC edit tests
17:02:42 [DanC]: --- Ontology typing
17:03:22 [DanC]: PFPS: make it optional [+details]
17:03:25 [DanC]: JJC: sounds good
17:03:45 [DanC]: so RESOLVED
17:04:58 [DanC]: ACTION JJC: add a test to show what would have happened if we hadn't made a change.
17:05:23 [DanC]: ACTION PFPS edit S&AS
17:05:49 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: check ref to see if there's impact
17:06:28 [DanC]: --- Old guide ontology versions
17:06:41 [DanC]: MikeS: I think I fixed this locally...
17:07:05 [DanC]: ACTION DanC: arrange for redirect
17:08:08 [DanC]: -- Parsia/Grove: OWL Test cases and Species Validation
17:09:16 [DanC]: Guus: [... summarizes email...] JJC, wanna finish this up?
17:09:57 [DanC]: JJC: sure... shall I get WG review 1st?
17:10:11 [DanC]: Guus: yes, send to webont-wg; chairs/team contact to OK, others welcome to comment
17:10:23 [Zakim]: -Peter
17:10:55 [DanC]: --- Hugh Winkler: Missing AllDisjoint
17:11:29 [Zakim]: +??P0
17:11:31 [DanC]: ACTION JJC: see if there's an answer for this in owl-tests
17:11:56 [DanC]: (unidentified caller)
17:12:14 [DanC]: -- Benjamin Nowack on OWL ref:
17:12:28 [DanC]: Guus: one is about named restrictions...
17:13:02 [DanC]: [... not allowed in OWL DL ... clarify...
17:13:03 [DanC]: ]
17:13:48 [DanC]: ACTION MikeD: look into Nowack comments
17:13:59 [DanC]: --- owl Class (from Brickley)
17:14:50 [DanC]: DanC: pls *don't* do what PatH did; don't just give your opinion
17:15:12 [DanC]: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.20-should-OWL-provide-synonyms-for-RDF-and-RDFS-objects
17:16:38 [DanC]: JJC: I think there are some clarifying tests...
17:16:52 [DanC]: DanC: seems to me that Reference is aimed at the audience DanBri is representing
17:17:07 [DanC]: ACTION JJC: propose clarifying test (cf owl for owl msg)
17:17:20 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: see if Reference answers this comment
17:17:58 [DanC]: --- 3.3 PR Schedule
17:18:04 [DanC]: DONE: ACTION JimH: discuss PR schedule with CG
17:18:16 [DanC]: Guus: this basically involved discussing the RDF schedule
17:18:36 [DanC]: ... looks like RDF Core to Proposed Rec not before December
17:19:21 [DanC]: DanC: at least we're not waiting for a PAG
17:19:43 [DanC]: --- 4. RDFCORE DOCUMENTS (10 min)
17:20:02 [DanC]: re ACTION Ian: report back on whether RDF WDs are as expected by S&AS
17:20:23 [DanC]: PFPS: RDF model theory appears to be satisfactory...
17:20:40 [DanC]: ... since rules are now normative, gotta look more closely at the rules
17:21:09 [DanC]: DanC: the rules are OK by me
17:21:47 [DanC]: ACTION HermanT: review RDF semantics w.r.t. OWL
17:23:18 [DanC]: PFPS notes dissatisfaction with www-rdf-comments messages
17:24:17 [DanC]: JJC: it'll help RDF Core finish sooner if we can review the current /TR/ drafts
17:24:53 [DanC]: considering... ACTION Guus: ask Ian to do a 2nd review [of what, exactly?]
17:27:08 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: ask Ian to do a 2nd review of RDF semantics
17:28:26 [DanC]: - position of WebOnt wrt. internationalization issues
17:29:30 [DanC]: Guus: the present RDFCore design is acceptable, and some of the others that have been considered are unacceptable. I don't propose to say "this is our favorite"
17:30:22 [DanC]: JJC: it would help if the "others" were specifically those proposed by I18N WG
17:30:44 [DanC]: ACTION Guus: revise proposal for WebOnt WG position on RDF Core literal decision
17:30:56 [DanC]: --- 5. Reguest from QA WG
17:32:50 [DanC]: JJC: documenting what we did compared to what they propose seems in order...
17:34:26 [DanC]: ACTION DanC: ask Evan Wallace to participate in WebOnt review of QA OPS guidelines
17:34:52 [DanC]: ACTION: report back to Karl on his request
17:35:31 [DanC]: JJC is willing to do some work here provided another volunteer shows up
17:35:46 [DanC]: -- 6. TEST ISSUES (if time allows)
17:35:50 [DanC]: JJC: not baked.
17:36:13 [Zakim]: -[EDS]
17:36:16 [Zakim]: -??P0
17:36:16 [DanC]: ADJOURN. meet again in 2 weeks
17:36:19 [Zakim]: -JJC
17:36:20 [Zakim]: -Deb_Mcguinness
17:36:21 [Zakim]: -Jean-Francois
17:36:22 [Zakim]: -??P48
17:36:24 [Zakim]: -Jeff_Heflin
17:36:25 [Zakim]: -Mike_Dean
17:36:26 [Zakim]: -Yasser_Alsafadi
17:36:26 [Zakim]: -??P39
17:42:25 [Zakim]: -Guus
17:42:27 [Zakim]: -DanC
17:42:27 [Zakim]: -Sandro
17:42:28 [Zakim]: SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
18:17:02 [DanC]: RRSAgent, pointer?
18:17:02 [RRSAgent]: See http://www.w3.org/2003/09/18-webont-irc#T18-17-02
19:33:57 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #webont