16:01:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webont
16:01:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webont
16:01:22 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
16:01:22 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I don't know what conference this is
16:01:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:01:29 <sandro> zakim, this is webont
16:01:29 <Zakim> ok, sandro
16:01:30 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
16:01:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P8, ??P13, Sandro
16:01:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:01:31 <Zakim> +??P38
16:01:55 <Zakim> +[INRIA]
16:01:56 <Zakim> +??P41
16:02:38 <sandro> zakim, mute ??P8 temporarily
16:02:38 <Zakim> ??P8 should now be muted
16:02:44 <Guus> zakim, ??p8 is Guus
16:02:44 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:02:49 <sandro> zakim, ??P13 is JJC
16:02:49 <Zakim> +JJC; got it
16:02:53 <Zakim> Guus should now be unmuted again
16:02:58 <baget> baget has joined #webont
16:03:17 <Zakim> +Jeff_Heflin
16:03:30 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
16:03:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus, JJC, Sandro, ??P38, [INRIA], ??P41, Jeff_Heflin
16:03:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see baget, Zakim, RRSAgent, logger, Guus, sandro
16:03:34 <Zakim> -Guus
16:03:34 <DanC> DanC has joined #webont
16:03:56 <Zakim> +DanC
16:04:21 <pfps> pfps has joined #webont
16:04:48 <Zakim> +Deb_Mcguinness
16:04:51 <Zakim> -DanC
16:04:56 <sandro> zakim, P??41 is PeterPS
16:04:56 <Zakim> sorry, sandro, I do not recognize a party named 'P??41'
16:05:09 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, ??P38, [INRIA], ??P41, Jeff_Heflin, Deb_Mcguinness
16:05:21 <sandro> zakim, ??P41 is Peter
16:05:21 <Zakim> +Peter; got it
16:05:23 <DeborahMc> DeborahMc has joined #webont
16:05:28 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:05:53 <Zakim> +DanC
16:06:21 <Zakim> +??P21
16:06:27 <sandro> Zakim, ??P38 is  Yasser_Alsafadi
16:06:27 <Zakim> +Yasser_Alsafadi; got it
16:06:42 <sandro> zakim, ??P21 is Guus
16:06:42 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:06:46 <sandro> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, Yasser_Alsafadi, [INRIA], Peter, Jeff_Heflin, DanC, Deb_Mcguinness, Mike_Dean, Guus
16:07:21 <sandro> zakim, [INRIA] is Jean-Francois
16:07:21 <Zakim> +Jean-Francois; got it
16:08:07 <DanC> ok, I'll scribe...
16:08:12 <DanC> agenda + 18Sep http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0193.html
16:08:19 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:08:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see JJC, Sandro, Yasser_Alsafadi, Jean-Francois, Peter, Jeff_Heflin, DanC, Deb_Mcguinness, Mike_Dean, Guus
16:08:30 <Zakim> +??P39
16:08:34 <DanC> DanC has changed the topic to: chair: guus; scribe: DanC
16:08:55 <DanC> regrets: Horrocks, MarwanS
16:09:19 <DanC> re minutes: White was there.
16:09:22 <DanC> as was Guus
16:09:36 <DanC> RESOLVED: to accept http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0163.html as ammended
16:10:06 <DanC> Guus: telcon frequency...
16:10:40 <Zakim> +??P48
16:10:57 <DanC> ... dependency on RDF Core likely to mean telcons thru December, so we think bi-weekly is better for maintaining participation
16:14:00 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet biweekly henceforth
16:14:13 <DanC> ... schedule for the next few weeks to appear in telcon minutes
16:15:59 <DanC> PROPOSED: to meet 2 Oct, 9 Oct, 30 Oct
16:16:13 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
16:17:45 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Press/ ... maybe
16:17:57 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/Press/Articles-2003.html this one
16:19:32 <DanC> e.g.
16:19:34 <DanC> Internetnews.com [12 September]
16:19:34 <DanC>     "Semantic Web: Out of the Theory Realm" , Michael Singer, W3C, RDF, XML, Semantic Web, OWL, Eric Miller
16:19:56 <DanC> so this completes ACTION DanC: summarize OWL press coverage
16:20:19 <DanC> DanC: the comm team tracks mentions of W3C in the press, with some keywords
16:20:37 <DanC> @@more on what I said
16:20:47 <DanC> JJC: I've been asked to do a presentation...
16:20:49 <Zakim> +[EDS]
16:21:08 <DanC> Charles: xfront.com was paid for by DAML...
16:21:33 <DanC> DanC: I've seen the xfront thing; I don't endorse it...
16:22:07 <DanC> PFPS: I'm not sure about the xfront thing either... I and [?] are giving a tutorial at ISWC
16:22:41 <DanC> [... missed some stuff about xfront...]
16:23:46 <DanC> Guus: both Jim and I have slides, but they're not very technical. I'm willing to send a pointer...
16:24:15 <pfps> [?] is Ian Horrocks and Sean Bechofer
16:24:24 <DanC> DanC: I guess I'll make an OwlTalks wiki topic and see it grows
16:24:33 <DanC> DebM: I've used the daml.org collection [of talks?]
16:24:45 <sandro> (Should the list of implementations be called OwlWalks ?  :-)
16:25:33 <DeborahMc> http://www.daml.org/briefings/  is the resource i mentioned
16:25:48 <DanC> thx, deb and PFPS
16:27:48 <DanC> DebM: I think DAML paid for BBN to maintain http://www.daml.org/briefings/ ... you might consider that
16:28:32 <DanC> MikeD: future funding for this is somewhat grey... OWL is a little broader than DAML...  the Wiki sounds interesting...
16:29:37 <DanC> ACTION Guus: see whether ontoweb can provide some support for OWL outreach
16:29:50 <DanC> ACTION MikeD: see whether DAML can provide some support for OWL outreach
16:30:20 <DanC> DanC: note W3C has to be fair about what it endorses
16:31:16 <DanC> wiki proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0201.html
16:34:00 <DanC> MikeS: [... not sure I understood it ...]
16:34:51 <DanC> DebM: the ones I've found useful are ones where people took an active ownership role...
16:35:03 <DanC> ... active recruiting etc.
16:35:31 <DanC> Guus: I like an edited resource perhaps supplemented by the wiki; I'm considering volunteering... maybe with one or two other people...
16:36:32 <DanC> DebM and MikeS express hesitant interest...
16:38:53 <DanC> [... discussion of  http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?CommunityLifeCycle ... ]
16:39:28 <DanC> [... discussion of getting together at ISWC ...]
16:39:53 <DanC> ACTION Guus: organize FAQ/guideline maintenance discussion at ISWC
16:40:50 <DanC> --- 2.3.x Status OMG UML Profile for OWL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-webont-wg/2003Sep/0053.html
16:41:02 <DanC> Guus: there are 3 proposals... anybody familiar with any of them?
16:41:20 <DanC> DebM: I'm somewhat familiar with the sandpiper[?] proposal
16:41:48 <DanC> [ah...  Sandpiper Software, Inc	http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?ad/03-08-06]
16:42:29 <DanC> Guus: would feedback be good? what's the proper channel?
16:42:36 <DanC> Deb: yes...
16:42:47 <DeborahMc> feedback for the sandpiper proposal should go to elisa kendall kendall@sandsoft.com
16:43:19 <DanC> Guus: Revised Submissions are due 27 October
16:43:37 <DanC> Guus: is that when one gets chosen?
16:43:41 <DanC> DebM: that looks likely
16:44:16 <DanC> DebM: [... more on OMG process... not sure I got it...]
16:45:00 <DanC> MikeD: how much OWL do the support? e.g. subPropertyOf?
16:45:16 <DanC> DebM: one of the things I like about the sandpiper proposal is thier support of subPropertyOf
16:45:54 <DanC> ... I gather subProperty is under consideration for future versions of UML
16:47:09 <DanC> Guus: do we need to review this, as a WG?
16:47:23 <DanC> DanC: I like to keep the SemWeb CG aware of liaison issues
16:48:00 <DanC> Guus: seems good to make sure other stds. body's work doesn't limit the use of OWL [something like that?]
16:48:19 <DanC> ACTION Guus: solicit advice on reviewing OMG proposals from SemWeb CG
16:49:20 <DanC> -----
16:49:34 <DanC> Guus: other connections to discuss? e.g. I'd like to discuss MPEG connection...
16:51:08 <DanC> DanC: there's some SMPTE thing that might be relevant and urgent... sorry I'm disorganized
16:51:25 <DanC> ---- 3. CR/PR ISSUES (15-25 min)
16:51:30 <sandro> ack sandro
16:51:46 <DanC> DONE: ACTION Sandro: send email (rdf-interest, rdf-logic)
16:51:52 <DanC> DONE: hendler/pellet
16:52:09 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: Ian Horrocks - Report Cerebra and Racer status
16:52:17 <sandro> ack sandro
16:52:41 <DanC> ACTION: Sandro - Report reasoning status re useful subsets of OWL Full. (done)
16:52:50 <DanC> DONE: ACTION: Jim Hendler - Check with Bijan re owl syntax checkers passing ...
16:52:51 <sandro> my announce e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-interest/2003Sep/0138.html
16:53:11 <DanC> DONE: ACTION JimH: check process doc re: features at Risk (cf reply to agenda).
16:53:52 <DanC> ---- 3.2 Comments on CR docs
16:54:52 <DanC> -- datatype mapping rules
16:59:35 <DanC> JJC: I could clarify with some tests
16:59:47 <DanC> ACTION JJC: add clarifying tests to OWL test repository
17:00:53 <DanC> -- InverseFuncProp
17:02:01 <DanC> PROPOSED: "The translation rule for individualvaluedPropertyID should be changed to make its first triple be optional if there is... " per 0181
17:02:07 <DanC> ... and add tests
17:02:21 <DanC> so RESOLVED. ACTION PFPS edit S&AS; JJC edit tests
17:02:42 <DanC> --- Ontology typing
17:03:22 <DanC> PFPS: make it optional [+details]
17:03:25 <DanC> JJC: sounds good
17:03:45 <DanC> so RESOLVED
17:04:58 <DanC> ACTION JJC: add a test to show what would have happened if we hadn't made a change.
17:05:23 <DanC> ACTION PFPS edit S&AS
17:05:49 <DanC> ACTION Guus: check ref to see if there's impact
17:06:28 <DanC> --- Old guide ontology versions
17:06:41 <DanC> MikeS: I think I fixed this locally...
17:07:05 <DanC> ACTION DanC: arrange for redirect
17:08:08 <DanC> -- Parsia/Grove: OWL Test cases and Species Validation
17:09:16 <DanC> Guus: [... summarizes email...] JJC, wanna finish this up?
17:09:57 <DanC> JJC: sure... shall I get WG review 1st?
17:10:11 <DanC> Guus: yes, send to webont-wg; chairs/team contact to OK, others welcome to comment
17:10:23 <Zakim> -Peter
17:10:55 <DanC> --- Hugh Winkler: Missing AllDisjoint
17:11:29 <Zakim> +??P0
17:11:31 <DanC> ACTION JJC: see if there's an answer for this in owl-tests
17:11:56 <DanC> (unidentified caller)
17:12:14 <DanC> -- Benjamin Nowack on OWL ref:
17:12:28 <DanC> Guus: one is about named restrictions...
17:13:02 <DanC> [... not allowed in OWL DL ... clarify...
17:13:03 <DanC> ]
17:13:48 <DanC> ACTION MikeD: look into Nowack comments
17:13:59 <DanC> --- owl Class (from Brickley)
17:14:50 <DanC> DanC: pls *don't* do what PatH did; don't just give your opinion
17:15:12 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/WebOnt/webont-issues.html#I5.20-should-OWL-provide-synonyms-for-RDF-and-RDFS-objects
17:16:38 <DanC> JJC: I think there are some clarifying tests...
17:16:52 <DanC> DanC: seems to me that Reference is aimed at the audience DanBri is representing
17:17:07 <DanC> ACTION JJC: propose clarifying test (cf owl for owl msg)
17:17:20 <DanC> ACTION Guus: see if Reference answers this comment
17:17:58 <DanC> --- 3.3 PR Schedule
17:18:04 <DanC> DONE: ACTION JimH: discuss PR schedule with CG
17:18:16 <DanC> Guus: this basically involved discussing the RDF schedule
17:18:36 <DanC> ... looks like RDF Core to Proposed Rec not before December
17:19:21 <DanC> DanC: at least we're not waiting for a PAG
17:19:43 <DanC> --- 4. RDFCORE DOCUMENTS (10 min)
17:20:02 <DanC> re ACTION Ian: report back on whether RDF WDs are as expected by S&AS
17:20:23 <DanC> PFPS: RDF model theory appears to be satisfactory...
17:20:40 <DanC> ... since rules are now normative, gotta look more closely at the rules
17:21:09 <DanC> DanC: the rules are OK by me
17:21:47 <DanC> ACTION HermanT: review RDF semantics w.r.t. OWL
17:23:18 <DanC> PFPS notes dissatisfaction with www-rdf-comments messages
17:24:17 <DanC> JJC: it'll help RDF Core finish sooner if we can review the current /TR/ drafts
17:24:53 <DanC> considering... ACTION Guus: ask Ian to do a 2nd review [of what, exactly?]
17:27:08 <DanC> ACTION Guus: ask Ian to do a 2nd review of RDF semantics
17:28:26 <DanC> - position of WebOnt wrt. internationalization issues
17:29:30 <DanC> Guus: the present RDFCore design is acceptable, and some of the others that have been considered are unacceptable. I don't propose to say "this is our favorite"
17:30:22 <DanC> JJC: it would help if the "others" were specifically those proposed by I18N WG
17:30:44 <DanC> ACTION Guus: revise proposal for WebOnt WG position on RDF Core literal decision
17:30:56 <DanC> --- 5. Reguest from QA WG
17:32:50 <DanC> JJC: documenting what we did compared to what they propose seems in order...
17:34:26 <DanC> ACTION DanC: ask Evan Wallace to participate in WebOnt review of QA OPS guidelines
17:34:52 <DanC> ACTION: report back to Karl on his request
17:35:31 <DanC> JJC is willing to do some work here provided another volunteer shows up
17:35:46 <DanC> -- 6. TEST ISSUES (if time allows)
17:35:50 <DanC> JJC: not baked.
17:36:13 <Zakim> -[EDS]
17:36:16 <Zakim> -??P0
17:36:16 <DanC> ADJOURN. meet again in 2 weeks
17:36:19 <Zakim> -JJC
17:36:20 <Zakim> -Deb_Mcguinness
17:36:21 <Zakim> -Jean-Francois
17:36:22 <Zakim> -??P48
17:36:24 <Zakim> -Jeff_Heflin
17:36:25 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:36:26 <Zakim> -Yasser_Alsafadi
17:36:26 <Zakim> -??P39
17:42:25 <Zakim> -Guus
17:42:27 <Zakim> -DanC
17:42:27 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:42:28 <Zakim> SW_WebOnt()12:00PM has ended
18:17:02 <DanC> RRSAgent, pointer?
18:17:02 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2003/09/18-webont-irc#T18-17-02
19:33:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #webont