IRC log of wai-wcag on 2003-09-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:04:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:04:49 [bcaldwell]
bcaldwell has joined #wai-wcag
14:04:56 [Zakim]
+Wendy
14:05:09 [Zakim]
+ +1.703.225.aabb
14:05:30 [wendy]
zakim, +1.703.225.aabb is Shailesh
14:05:30 [Zakim]
+Shailesh; got it
14:05:33 [Zakim]
+??P18
14:05:41 [rscano]
zakim, ??P18 is Ben
14:05:41 [Zakim]
+Ben; got it
14:05:43 [wendy]
zakim, ??P18 is Ben
14:05:43 [Zakim]
sorry, wendy, I do not recognize a party named '??P18'
14:05:51 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Shailesh, Ben
14:06:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.416.946.aacc
14:06:52 [rscano]
zakim, +1.416.946.aacc is Chris
14:06:52 [Zakim]
+Chris; got it
14:06:58 [wendy]
zakim, Shailesh is Sailesh_Panchang
14:06:58 [Zakim]
+Sailesh_Panchang; got it
14:07:07 [rscano]
agenda?
14:07:25 [wendy]
agenda+ server-side techniques
14:07:58 [wendy]
agenda+ gateway techniques http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-GATEWAY-20030723.html
14:12:01 [wendy]
lisa's rdf techniques: http://www.ubaccess.com/rdf.html
14:12:26 [wendy]
wac summarizes lisa's and charles's directions
14:13:17 [wendy]
geoff raised points about server-side being http header, apache-specific configurations...server configuration techniques rather than server-side scripting
14:14:50 [wendy]
perhaps server techniques and metadata techniques
14:15:40 [wendy]
action: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions
14:19:24 [wendy]
zakim, take up agendum 1
14:19:24 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "server-side techniques" taken up [from wendy]
14:19:32 [wendy]
close this agendum
14:19:40 [wendy]
take up agendum 2
14:20:01 [wendy]
lots of things to go through.
14:20:30 [wendy]
- many checkpoints don't have any info
14:20:32 [wendy]
- editorial notes
14:20:40 [wendy]
- how to link to technology-specifics
14:20:47 [wendy]
- general organization
14:21:11 [sh1mmer]
sh1mmer has joined #wai-wcag
14:21:23 [rscano]
hi Tom
14:21:26 [sh1mmer]
Hi :)
14:21:37 [sh1mmer]
Am I late, I thought the meeting was at 4
14:21:47 [rscano]
yep... did u come in teleconference?
14:21:58 [sh1mmer]
I will now.
14:22:48 [Zakim]
+ +44.191.514.aadd
14:23:04 [wendy]
there are some techniques in the html techniques that we'd like to move here. also moving best practices and additional notes (as mock-up)
14:23:14 [wendy]
zakim, +44.191.514.aadd is Tom_Croucher
14:23:14 [Zakim]
+Tom_Croucher; got it
14:23:20 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:23:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Roberto_Scano, Michael_Cooper, Wendy, Sailesh_Panchang, Ben, Chris, Tom_Croucher
14:23:30 [wendy]
zakim, Ben is Ben_Caldwell
14:23:30 [Zakim]
+Ben_Caldwell; got it
14:23:37 [wendy]
zakim, Chris is Chris_Ridpath
14:23:37 [Zakim]
+Chris_Ridpath; got it
14:24:32 [Zakim]
+Dave_MacDonald
14:26:34 [wendy]
what mechanisms provide to help people find their way?
14:26:36 [wendy]
an index
14:27:49 [wendy]
concern about length for each checkpoint.
14:28:18 [wendy]
big long list? organization by checkpoint makes sense, but could get long.
14:28:33 [wendy]
wouldn't help to sort by elements or other categories.
14:29:33 [wendy]
success criteria as another grouping. helpful if have handles for each criterion to use as the heading.
14:33:30 [wendy]
guidelines link to techniques?
14:34:48 [wendy]
UAAG model - in guidelines after each checkpoint, link to techniques.
14:34:58 [wendy]
documents look so similar hard to tell if in techniques or guidelines.
14:35:19 [wendy]
same model as WCAG 1.0 and have heard more than once that people did not notice the links to techniques.
14:36:31 [wendy]
WCAG 1.0 currently has a "gateway techniques".
14:36:35 [wendy]
e.g., here's for 1.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/WAI-WEBCONTENT-TECHS/#tech-text-equivalent
14:36:52 [wendy]
that links to the technology specifics
14:40:08 [wendy]
discussion about how to move through, to link to techniques
14:40:24 [wendy]
summary: each checkpoint would have link to gateway techinque that mirrors it.
14:41:50 [wendy]
each gateway technique then links to technology-specific
14:42:43 [wendy]
links from checkpoint to gateway are not at every success criterion, at checkpoint, but then gateway divided by success criteria.
14:43:09 [wendy]
put everything in a database and serve a variety of views.
14:43:48 [rscano]
yes... I think that we need to define some keywords(referring to the guidelines and techs) for let people to browse gateway by keywords
14:44:55 [wendy]
that's the way we've set it up - using XML.
14:45:28 [wendy]
need to check into w3c process and what are the limitations with providing diff views of a Recommendation. i.e., likely to have less flexibility with normative info than informative
14:48:28 [wendy]
what if interested only in html techniques?
14:48:51 [wendy]
do technology-specifics reference back to gateway?
14:49:35 [wendy]
hypothetical: in html if say "use css tech instead" link to gateway or to css techs?
14:51:22 [wendy]
gateway: at top link to other tech-specifics
14:51:51 [wendy]
in tech-specific: in status/intro "this is part of a suite of techhniques..." clear that it is not the only one and that doesn't "stand on it's own"
14:52:24 [wendy]
link back to gateway for every technique?
14:54:02 [wendy]
e.g., tips to describe alt-text. html will describe how to use alt, but reference gateway for specifics on writing the contents of alt.
14:56:45 [wendy]
audience - workflow. who are they? how are they using this? personas? use cases?
14:57:21 [wendy]
some of that listed in Requirements for WCAG 2.0 Checklists and Techniques http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-tech-req/
15:00:42 [wendy]
ask IG about use cases.
15:01:53 [wendy]
need to document assumptions
15:02:04 [wendy]
1. write down all of the use cases you can think of
15:02:09 [wendy]
2. someone post a query to IG for similar info
15:03:04 [wendy]
action: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques
15:03:08 [wendy]
when to discuss?
15:03:34 [wendy]
f2f? part of gateway techniques discussion?
15:06:32 [wendy]
Tuesday 1:30-4:30 pm EDT discussion of Gateways
15:07:01 [wendy]
1:30 - 3:00 - use case discussions. following, turn to other issues in Gateway Techniques
15:07:10 [wendy]
agenda for next week: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2003/09/f2f-agenda.html#Agenda
15:07:52 [rscano]
i've problems with audio
15:07:53 [rscano]
:(
15:10:12 [wendy]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag20.html#techs
15:11:30 [joeclark]
joeclark has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:55 [wendy]
hey joe
15:12:27 [rscano]
hi joe
15:12:39 [wendy]
action: michael introduce use case thread
15:13:12 [wendy]
collect these as part of discussion for next tuesday
15:17:15 [wendy]
NFB excerpts: distill it?
15:17:30 [wendy]
point out specifics rather than link to.
15:18:45 [wendy]
gateway not formatted ala html techniques, but could be. i.e., technique/(checklist-item | examples | refs)
15:18:56 [wendy]
distill highlights of NFB into a few techniques
15:19:07 [wendy]
link to lots of refs
15:20:00 [wendy]
how decide which refs to link to? lots of info out there.
15:20:43 [wendy]
cocern about favoritism or endorsement if link to one or not another.
15:21:17 [wendy]
s/NFB/NBA
15:22:33 [wendy]
auxiliary references? other sources of good info. where do we stop? what about other languages?
15:26:59 [wendy]
http://www.w3.org/2000/08/nba-manual/Overview.html
15:30:35 [wendy]
w3c translations: http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Translation/
15:35:04 [wendy]
wcag 1.0 guidelines/checkpoints translated into several langs. techniques: french and japanese
15:42:24 [wendy]
EOWG coordination issue
15:43:19 [rscano]
we have an IWA/HWG member inside EOWG
15:44:26 [wendy]
EOWG working on review of WCAG 2.0. likely to talk w/them about their comments. add to agenda discussion of translations and support materials.
15:44:52 [wendy]
action: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG
15:48:08 [wendy]
action: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over.
15:55:51 [wendy]
in techniques, a way to encourage people to do more than the minimum?
15:56:23 [wendy]
emphasize that once done minimum, going further sometimes isn't that much more effort.
15:57:02 [wendy]
cross-referencing between techniques might help?
15:57:45 [wendy]
(brainstorming about how to help get this across and if it is a good idea)
15:58:24 [rscano]
explain what is the risk for the accessibility of a page if they don't respect other checkpoint? Eg: if you don't respect this checkpoint bla bla bla...
15:59:14 [wendy]
use cases: will have people approaching reluctantly others enthusiastically.
15:59:43 [rscano]
made like www.diveintoaccessibility.org ?
15:59:51 [wendy]
consider this in design of gateway and how to accomodate both needs as well as wanting to encourage people to "do more" w/out giving them too much info that it discourages them.
15:59:54 [wendy]
actions?
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
sees 5 open action items:
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions [1]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T14-15-40
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques [2]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-03-04
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael introduce use case thread [3]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-12-39
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG [4]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-44-52
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over. [5]
15:59:54 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-48-08
16:00:32 [wendy]
action: everyone write use cases for techniques for next week's discussion
16:00:57 [rscano]
ok
16:01:07 [wendy]
no meeting next wednesday since f2f next monday/tuesday
16:01:22 [wendy]
next telecon is 17 sept
16:01:51 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
16:01:54 [wendy]
zakim, bye
16:01:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:02:00 [wendy]
RRSAgent, bye
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
I see 6 open action items:
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wac write to lisa and geoff about directions [1]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T14-15-40
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael ask IG about use cases for techniques [2]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-03-04
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael introduce use case thread [3]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-12-39
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: wac msg to chairs to discuss scheduling joing mtg w/EOWG [4]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-44-52
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: michael ask richard about what are the impacts on localization of our documents of linking to external resources in a particular lang that we don't have control over. [5]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T15-48-08
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: everyone write use cases for techniques for next week's discussion [6]
16:02:00 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2003/09/03-wai-wcag-irc#T16-00-32