IRC log of tagmem on 2002-03-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:00:41 [RRSAgent]

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15:00:48 [TimBL]

RRSAgent, help

15:00:49 [DanC]

RRSAgent, pointer?

15:00:49 [DanC]

See http://www.w3.org/2002/03/04-tagmem-irc#T15-00-49

15:03:31 [DanC]

* Paul's notes from Technical Plenary TAG session Paul Cotton (Thu, Feb 28 2002)

15:03:31 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2002Feb/0077.html

15:11:53 [DanC]

Zakim, this will be tag

15:11:54 [Zakim]

ok, DanC

15:22:22 [DanC]

"In addition, a report on the discussions at the workshop will be made public after the meeting." -- http://www.w3.org/XML/2001/07/XMLPM.html

15:27:14 [Stuart]

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15:28:37 [TimBL]

Zakim, this is TAG

15:28:38 [Zakim]

sorry, TimBL, I do not see a conference named 'TAG'

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15:28:58 [TimBL]

ooops

15:29:08 [DanCon]

oops;

15:29:11 [DanCon]

see you in the telcon.

15:29:28 [Zakim]

TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has now started

15:29:32 [Zakim]

+TimBL

15:29:36 [TimBL]

Zakim, this is TAG

15:29:37 [Zakim]

ok, TimBL

15:29:40 [Zakim]

+??P5

15:30:10 [TimBL]

Zakim, ??P5 is Stuart

15:30:11 [Zakim]

+Stuart; got it

15:30:17 [TimBL]

Zakim, who is here?

15:30:18 [Zakim]

I see TimBL, Stuart

15:30:39 [Zakim]

+DanC

15:31:00 [Zakim]

+ChrisL

15:31:55 [DanCon]

frap; my ssh tunnel is acting up

15:32:12 [Zakim]

+??P6

15:32:15 [Zakim]

+??P8

15:32:33 [Roy]

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15:32:43 [DanCon]

Zakim, who's here?

15:32:44 [Zakim]

I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, ??P6, ??P8

15:32:54 [TimBL]

Zakim, ??P6 is PaulC

15:32:55 [Zakim]

+PaulC; got it

15:33:05 [Roy]

I need the phone number

15:33:20 [DanCon]

tel:+1.617.761.6200

15:33:22 [Stuart]

+1 617 761 6200 I think

15:33:28 [Stuart]

then 0824#

15:33:40 [Zakim]

+ +1.604.873.aaaa

15:33:41 [TimBL]

Zakim, ??P8 is Norm

15:33:42 [Zakim]

+Norm; got it

15:33:57 [TimBL]

Zakim, 604 is TimBray

15:33:58 [Zakim]

sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '604'

15:34:05 [DanCon]

Zakim, +1.604.873.aaaa is TimBray

15:34:06 [Zakim]

+TimBray; got it

15:34:06 [Zakim]

+??P10

15:34:11 [TimBL]

Zakim, +1.604 is TimBray

15:34:12 [Zakim]

sorry, TimBL, I do not recognize a party named '+1.604'

15:34:24 [DanCon]

Zakim, ??P10 is RoyF

15:34:25 [Zakim]

+RoyF; got it

15:34:30 [DanCon]

Zakim, who's here?

15:34:30 [TimBL]

Zakim, who isn't here?

15:34:31 [Zakim]

I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF

15:34:31 [Zakim]

I don't understand your question, TimBL.

15:34:47 [DanCon]

regrets from IanJ

15:34:59 [DanCon]

========== Convene

15:35:02 [DanCon]

Zakim, who's here?

15:35:03 [Zakim]

I see TimBL, Stuart, DanC, ChrisL, PaulC, Norm, TimBray, RoyF

15:35:23 [TimBL]

http://www.w3.org/2002/03/04-tag.html

15:35:26 [DanCon]

agenda etc: http://www.w3.org/2002/03/04-tag

15:35:36 [DanCon]

Last modified: $Date: 2002/03/05 23:10:05 $

15:36:40 [DanCon]

[some confusion about the agenda...]

15:36:57 [DanCon]

agenda+ admin, review of minutes

15:37:08 [DanCon]

agenda+ * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?

15:37:18 [DanCon]

agenda+ 1. Creative writing: dividing up the TOC

15:37:32 [DanCon]

agenda+ * XML namespace issues. Mixed namespaces. Issue 13.

15:38:34 [DanCon]

-------- Action review

15:38:54 [DanCon]

-- XML PM workshop stuff...

15:40:18 [DanCon]

http://www.w3.org/XML/2001/07/xmlpm-minutes.html

15:41:02 [DanCon]

ACTION DanC: check with workshop chair, make them available to the public, per CFP

15:41:13 [DanCon]

DONE: Summarize XMl PM workshop

15:41:39 [DanCon]

PaulC: dan, when you're done making them public, lemme know so I can re-send to www-tag, OK?

15:41:42 [DanCon]

DanCon: OK

15:41:52 [DanCon]

DONE: Kick off discusiion of mixed namespace interpretation on www-tag

15:41:57 [DanCon]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Feb/0190.html

15:42:11 [DanCon]

--

15:42:17 [DanCon]

going back to the top of the list...

15:42:29 [DanCon]

"Summarize different approaches currently used for mapping URIs to media types."

15:42:34 [DanCon]

not quite clear who's doing what...

15:43:03 [DanCon]

ACTION RoyF CONTINUES.

15:43:33 [DanCon]

from 12Feb, Paul requested to withdraw "Summarize TAG findings on using URIs: (a) use URIs when naming in context of Web (2) should be able to follow URI to explanatory material (3) software is not required to follow a URI when processing it"

15:44:15 [Zakim]

+DOrchard

15:45:10 [DanCon]

action comes from 15:52:56 http://www.w3.org/2002/02/12-tagmem-irc

15:45:16 [DanCon]

ACTION PaulC CONTINUES.

15:45:51 [DanCon]

ACTION TimBL CONTINUES:

15:45:53 [DanCon]

"Add a section on datatypes to the TAG arch doc toc."

15:45:57 [DanCon]

from 12Feb.

15:46:26 [DanCon]

re TBL 12 Feb "In 28 Jan findings, propose alternative wording to section on namespace-based dispatching"

15:46:32 [DanCon]

ACTION TimBL CONTINUES.

15:47:49 [DanCon]

ACTION TimBL CONTINUES: "In 28 Jan findings, change "Should" to "Must" where appropriate."

15:48:04 [DanCon]

ACTION IJ CONTINUES: "Integrate findings into TAG arch doc toc."

15:48:25 [Stuart]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2002Feb/att-0102/01-uriMediaType-9.html

15:48:25 [DanCon]

DONE: SW "Write up that the TAG approves of IETF draft from Don Eastlake with "http:" instead of "content-type:"."

15:49:16 [DanCon]

Roy: [something...]

15:49:29 [DanCon]

DONE: TBray: "Write a proposal to suggest that URNs not be used for namespace URIs."

15:50:05 [DanCon]

re "Ask Philipp Hoschka to take a new HTTP requirement on idempotent POST-like method to IETF liaison teleconference. Include the XForms WG in the loop." TBL from 18Feb.

15:51:26 [DanCon]

Roy: I'm not sure what this is about...

15:53:27 [DanCon]

reviewing the log, it seems related to "whenToUseGet-7

15:53:28 [DanCon]

"

15:53:36 [DanCon]

ACTION TBL WITHDRAWN.

15:54:08 [DanCon]

it came from 22:25:37 http://www.w3.org/2002/02/12-tagmem-irc

15:54:26 [DanCon]

DONE: TBray: "Rewrite point 14 of Architectural Theses on Namespaces and Namespace Documents per discussion at 18 feb teleconference."

15:55:01 [DanCon]

ACTION PaulC/Ian: draft summary of TAG work to date. DONE.

15:56:51 [DanCon]

"Here is my draft report using my outline. ... " -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2002Mar/0002.html

15:58:06 [DanCon]

TBL/DanC: style is kinda formal; be more chatty?

15:58:21 [DanCon]

Roy/Bray/others: it's fine; not much meat to it yet anyway.

15:59:29 [DanCon]

PROPOSED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members, chairs@w3.org.

16:00:00 [DanCon]

PaulC: I've heard requests for a separate tag announce list, FYI.

16:00:28 [DanCon]

RESOLVED: forward summary to www-tag, w3c-ac-members, chairs@w3.org.

16:00:39 [DanCon]

ACTION DanC: send it out.

16:00:50 [DanCon]

agenda?

16:01:06 [DanCon]

======== 2. * Technical Plenary - short report - issues arising?

16:01:17 [DanCon]

PaulC: "more technical stuff" is the major feedback we got.

16:02:09 [DanCon]

PaulC: I think it would be interesting for the TAG to lead discussion of technical issue. have folks discuss them.

16:02:16 [DanCon]

SW: yeah...

16:02:31 [DanCon]

PaulC: no particular "please look at this issue" feedback.

16:03:10 [DanCon]

DaveO: "document authoring" folks at a lunch table suggested that 'ease of authoring' is broken...

16:03:22 [DanCon]

ChrisL: they seem to be asking for one big W3C namespace

16:04:36 [DanCon]

PaulC: to summarize, again: the TAG session went so well that they asked us to run the whole thing next time.

16:04:57 [DanCon]

PaulC: thanks, Norm and Dan, for the nifty presentations.

16:06:08 [TimBL]

---------------------

16:06:10 [TimBL]

http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/toc.html

16:06:33 [DanCon]

TimBL: note it's color-coded... issues in red, ...

16:07:42 [DanCon]

Bray: wasn't somebody gonna stick all the issues in there?

16:07:59 [DanCon]

TBL: I did that; it was up to date at some point

16:08:49 [DanCon]

RoyF: is this an index of what we're doing? or an architectural description of the web?

16:08:52 [DanCon]

TBL: both

16:11:58 [DanCon]

TBray: who's maitaining this? I asked for anchors, version numbers, etc. ... how about xmlspec DTD?

16:12:16 [DanCon]

TBL: I'm maintaining it; I'm using Amaya, and I just hit save.

16:17:11 [DanCon]

[lots of discussion, about what is not exactly clear]

16:19:50 [DanCon]

Roy: ah... now I get it... the section heading for the 3rd bit misled me.

16:20:00 [DanCon]

"Representational State Transfer"

16:21:37 [DanCon]

TBray: how about this version/last version; keeping old version available.

16:22:17 [DanCon]

TBL: I expect the blue ("working documents") bits to expand.

16:24:46 [DanCon]

RoyF: so I'd like to help with the writing, but I don't see the process.

16:24:53 [DanCon]

TimBL: that's what this agenda item is about...

16:25:15 [TimBL]

Zakim, q?

16:25:16 [Zakim]

I see no one on the speaker queue

16:25:52 [DanCon]

Bray: do we expect to point the community at this page?

16:25:58 [DanCon]

DanCon: we've done that much already, no?

16:26:10 [DanCon]

Bray: then I'm not comfortable; it's got stuff that we've never discussed, typos, etc.

16:27:12 [DanCon]

TimBL: this is very much a draft...

16:27:44 [DanCon]

Bray: then please put a disclaimer at the top

16:30:03 [DanCon]

[discussion of just what sort of disclaimer is appropriate/sufficient]

16:31:28 [DanCon]

TimBL: I'd like to assign somebody the intro, and somebody a one-page version of each section.

16:31:37 [DanCon]

[and something about slides?]

16:33:24 [DanCon]

RoyF: "CHAPTER 4: Designing the Web Architecture: Problems and Insights" belongs more in the TAG intro than in the 3rd section of our docs.

16:35:42 [DanCon]

[...]

16:35:58 [DanCon]

DanCon: are folks backing out from using/wanting CVS?

16:36:43 [DanCon]

Roy: my request for CVS is pending. but I still intend to use it.

16:37:14 [DanCon]

TimBray: does section 4 [messages] need to be there?

16:37:44 [DanCon]

TimBL: sorta like asking "does web services need to be there"? i.e. where would you put stuff about messages and such?

16:38:14 [DanCon]

q+

16:39:33 [DanCon]

?: but are they bringing us issues?

16:40:01 [DanCon]

PaulC: how about having the web services architecture group to write that stuff?

16:42:04 [DanCon]

DanCon: there are issues, e.g. from RDF Core, that don't come up until you uncover the illusion that the web never changes.

16:44:02 [DanCon]

DanCon: I hope to learn about web services architecture by discussing it here.

16:44:36 [DanCon]

DaveO: so which group should develop the web services architecture?

16:45:02 [DanCon]

DanCon: I hope we'll come to agreement about what it is.

16:45:37 [DanCon]

DaveO/PaulC: the Web Services architecture group is discussion "what is a web service?" at length right now.

16:46:50 [Stuart]

\me and counting... tick :-)

16:47:03 [DanCon]

DaveO: I'd like this group to give the web services arch group a framework in which to define web service.

16:50:18 [TimBL]

daveO: it would be useful for them to have a glossary from us

16:50:34 [TimBL]

tim: it would be useful for us to work on the glosary sonn, as we go.

16:51:42 [DanCon]

PaulC: so if we give a good grounding in the basics, other groups, e.g. Web Services Arch, should fall in/out naturally.

16:51:56 [DanCon]

[several]: sounds good.

16:52:53 [DanCon]

TBL: so... back to the idea of one page on each section...

16:53:58 [DanCon]

Bray/DanC/Orchard: yes, filling in the content is likely to provide useful feedback on the TOC.

16:54:03 [DanCon]

... it's iterative.

16:54:04 [TimBL]

DaveO: table of dependencies betwen specifications would be useful asn I wouldlike to work on it.

16:55:06 [DanCon]

TimBL asks DaveO to chat offline about dependencies etc....

16:55:19 [DanCon]

Norm: I've been doing depenency stuff too; I'd like to be involved.

16:56:45 [DanCon]

TimBL: I'd like to attack sections in pairs, rather than having each person stay in their field of expertise.

16:57:48 [DanCon]

Norm: I'm interested in "what is a URI"

16:57:54 [DanCon]

Chris: message section.

16:58:20 [DanCon]

Stuart: "what is a URI" -- me too.

16:58:31 [DanCon]

PaulC: message section.

16:58:36 [DanCon]

... with chris.

16:58:57 [DanCon]

DanCon: I'm interested in the intro.

16:59:02 [DanCon]

Bray: me too: intro.

16:59:32 [Zakim]

-TimBray

17:00:41 [Stuart]

On dependencies I spoke to some folks from the RDF-IG and they were interested in 'scraping' a dependency graph out of the documents themselves.

17:01:15 [TimBL]

Applicationl State Transfer @@ retitle (Roy, DaveO)

17:01:45 [Zakim]

-RoyF

17:01:48 [Zakim]

-PaulC

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-DOrchard

17:01:53 [Zakim]

-ChrisL

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-TimBL

17:02:44 [Zakim]

-DanC

17:02:45 [Zakim]

-Stuart

17:02:46 [Zakim]

-Norm

17:02:47 [Zakim]

TAG_Weekly()10:30AM has ended

17:02:50 [DanC]

so, tim, does the group expect more than just a pointer to the IRC log?

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