IRC log of tagmem on 2002-02-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:04:52 [TimBL]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 16:04:53 [Zakim]
- I see TimBL, Cannes, TBray, Roy
- 16:05:27 [TimBL]
- Zakim, Cannes holds Ian, Norm, Chris, Steve,
- 16:05:28 [Zakim]
- +Ian, Norm, Chris, Steve; got it
- 16:05:46 [TimBL]
- Zakim, Cannes also holds Stuart
- 16:05:47 [Zakim]
- +Stuart; got it
- 16:06:48 [TimBL]
- Zakim, where is the RDF?
- 16:06:49 [Zakim]
- sorry, TimBL, I do not understand your question
- 16:08:02 [ian__]
- TBL: For panel: depth first or breadth-first?
- 16:08:53 [ian__]
- NW: If we've started depth-first, let's not abandon in the middle.
- 16:09:43 [ian__]
- +David Orchard
- 16:10:15 [ian__]
- Agenda:
- 16:10:24 [ian__]
- 1) Reporting to the AC
- 16:10:33 [ian__]
- 2) W3C Track in Hawaii
- 16:10:48 [ian__]
- 3) Depth-first or breadth-first on tackling issues?
- 16:11:04 [ian__]
- TBL: I hear we should go depth-first while in the middle of technical issues
- 16:11:12 [ian__]
- 4) Tech plenary panel
- 16:11:35 [ian__]
- 5) XML namespaces
- 16:11:55 [ian__]
- CL: I think it's good to go depth-first. The public can shred things / help us a lot.
- 16:12:10 [ian__]
- TBL: TOC is updated:
- 16:12:13 [ian__]
- +Dan Connolly
- 16:12:34 [ian__]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/toc
- 16:13:47 [ian__]
- TBL: I welcome feedback on TOC.
- 16:13:53 [ian__]
- + Paul Cotton.
- 16:14:24 [ian__]
- Action: Add toc to http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/#documents
- 16:14:31 [ian__]
- s/Action:/Action: IJ/
- 16:15:57 [ian__]
- -----
- 16:17:45 [ian__]
- zakim, Cannes holds Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian
- 16:17:46 [Zakim]
- +Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian; got it
- 16:17:57 [ian__]
- zakim, who is here
- 16:17:58 [Zakim]
- ian__, you need to end that query with '?'
- 16:18:02 [ian__]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:18:03 [Zakim]
- I see TimBL, Cannes, TBray, Roy
- 16:18:04 [Zakim]
- Cannes has Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian
- 16:18:25 [ian__]
- zakim, Cannes holds Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian, DanC
- 16:18:26 [Zakim]
- +Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian, DanC; got it
- 16:18:50 [ian__]
- ----------------------------
- 16:19:27 [ian__]
- 1) Tech plenary panel
- 16:19:49 [ian__]
- PC summarizing TP planning meeting today:
- 16:19:54 [ian__]
- a) NW will explain what the TAG is.
- 16:20:18 [ian__]
- b) DC (PC expects) will talk about what the TAG is doing.
- 16:20:23 [ian__]
- [20 mins for questions]
- 16:20:36 [ian__]
- c) We will occupy 2 BOF tables at lunch.
- 16:21:10 [ian__]
- (say, 2 volunteers at 2 tables)
- 16:21:43 [ian__]
- d) End of day session (town hall). Moderators will appear at this panel (not entire TAG).
- 16:22:44 [ian__]
- PC: So open issue is what DC will present.
- 16:23:18 [ian__]
- TBL: I think it's a good idea to rotate who appears at town hall.
- 16:23:28 [ian__]
- DO volunteers to represent the TAG at town hall.
- 16:24:28 [ian__]
- DC talk: http://www.w3.org/Talks/2002/02/27-wa/all.htm
- 16:25:42 [ian__]
- PC: I had suggested: (1) pointing to issues list (2) showing what we've done (3) ask other groups how they would solve some issues.
- 16:26:04 [TimBL]
- q+
- 16:26:56 [TimBray]
- q+
- 16:27:54 [ian__]
- [Discussion about whether TAG should be primarily responding to issues or primarily writing about web architecture, or both. And in what proportion.]
- 16:28:56 [ian__]
- TBL: Our end goal is to produce and arch document (that will change over time). We are working from the middle out. Top-down architectures don't work anyway. We can't only bottom-up either. We are using the issues people have pointed out to us to indicate where the urgency is.
- 16:29:42 [ian__]
- PC: I'd like an agenda for our next meeting to talk about what active items we can do in the creative writing space.
- 16:30:17 [ian__]
- ...e.g., dropping text from existing documents in toc.
- 16:30:23 [ian__]
- ...we need to have done this by May 2002.
- 16:31:34 [TimBL]
- ack t
- 16:32:01 [ian__]
- TB: I agree with PC's intro - my takeaway from ftf was that NW would do intro and charter, and DC would look at concrete examples.
- 16:32:33 [ian__]
- TB: I like DC's slides, but I thought we agreed to something different.
- 16:32:53 [ian__]
- DC: "Crash Course in Arch". Is that the right title?
- 16:32:59 [ian__]
- TB: Should be "What the TAG has been working on"
- 16:33:48 [ian__]
- TBL: Show 4 broad headings of TOC as a slide.
- 16:34:10 [ian__]
- ..".e.g., we are elaborating this and, for example, we got a question about whether to deprecate GET..."
- 16:35:03 [ian__]
- PC: I suggest "Defining the Web Architecture".
- 16:35:17 [ian__]
- [Agreement that that sounds good.]
- 16:35:55 [ian__]
- DO: My only concern with "Defining" is that some people may not agree. Whereas we do know what our issues are...
- 16:36:29 [ian__]
- TB: That's covered by NW's talk.
- 16:37:14 [ian__]
- TB: I think DC's talk should list (in passing) the issues list.
- 16:39:09 [ian__]
- TBL: What you have to get across is the mixture of states: some principles are bakes, some parts are not as clear.
- 16:40:05 [ian__]
- DC: Yes, it would work to show breadth and depth.
- 16:40:17 [ian__]
- --------------------------------
- 16:40:32 [ian__]
- W3C Track in Hawaii?
- 16:41:00 [ian__]
- [postponed]
- 16:41:02 [ian__]
- ------------------------------
- 16:42:00 [ian__]
- PC: Some times people I've talked to are surprised by what we are doing.
- 16:42:08 [ian__]
- ...our charter says we will report to AC.
- 16:42:12 [ian__]
- ....AB does this.
- 16:42:34 [ian__]
- ...I suggest writing a monthly report to be sent to AC reps.
- 16:42:48 [ian__]
- ...e.g., issues resolved in last month, issues we are currently working on.
- 16:43:05 [ian__]
- CL: People want distilled information.
- 16:43:18 [ian__]
- IJ: Should be public.
- 16:44:25 [ian__]
- IJ: I can live with summaries of state changes in issues list.
- 16:44:32 [ian__]
- CL: I don't think that it's necessary to summarize the arguments, for example.
- 16:46:03 [ian__]
- IJ: I suggest also sending summary to Chairs.
- 16:46:50 [ian__]
- DO: I don't think the summary should only talk about what we've done. Should also talk about work we think we will be working on.
- 16:48:38 [ian__]
- Resolved:
- 16:48:52 [ian__]
- - TAG will produce public monthly summary, looking forward and backward.
- 16:49:07 [ian__]
- Action IJ and PC: Produce a proposal for review by TAG that will look backward to what we've done so far.
- 16:49:39 [ian__]
- ------------------------
- 16:49:44 [ian__]
- W3C Track in Hawaii?
- 16:49:49 [ian__]
- PC: See my email.
- 16:50:04 [ian__]
- Who will be in Hawaii?
- 16:50:20 [ian__]
- TB - I won't be there during the week.
- 16:50:33 [ian__]
- (Everyone else will be there.)
- 16:50:49 [ian__]
- Dates of Hawaii meetings:
- 16:50:59 [Zakim]
- -TBray
- 16:51:00 [ian__]
- * 4-13 May 2002: AC meeting, WWW2002. '
- 16:51:02 [TimBray]
- s/TimBray/pumpkin/
- 16:51:08 [ian__]
- *
- 16:51:08 [ian__]
- * 4 May: AB ftf meeting (decided 14 Jan 2002 teleconf)
- 16:51:08 [ian__]
- * 5 May: TAG ftf meeting
- 16:51:08 [ian__]
- * 6-7 May: AC meeting
- 16:51:08 [ian__]
- * 7-11 May: WWW2002
- 16:51:09 [ian__]
- * 12-13 May: Team meeting (per 31 Jan global comm meeting)
- 16:51:12 [ian__]
- *
- 16:52:30 [ian__]
- PC: The proposal is that there be a TAG track on Weds.
- 16:52:31 [ian__]
- ------------------------------------
- 16:53:16 [ian__]
- TBL: Next meeting, we will have more technical content, pick up where we left off on xml namespaces.
- 16:53:47 [ian__]
- I'd like to include in the discussion the general question about how to define the meaning of a document that includes xslt, xinclude, and xml encryption (and xml query).
- 16:54:05 [ian__]
- ...They look like functions. There needs to be some architecture for that; may need to spin off to another group.
- 16:55:53 [ian__]
- PC: XML Processing Workshop minutes are homework.
- 16:57:12 [ian__]
- ...in particular, there was a poll conducted at the end.
- 16:57:57 [ian__]
- Action PC and DO: Send some sense of what happened at the workshop to the TAG. Visibility depends on Workshop visibility.
- 16:59:36 [ian__]
- CL: There are 2 constituencies - those who want a particular processing order, those who don't.
- 16:59:44 [ian__]
- TBL: This is a problem with defining a processing model.
- 17:00:08 [ian__]
- --------------------------------
- 17:02:08 [ian__]
- Action IJ: INclude new issue in issues list.
- 17:02:19 [ian__]
- Resolved: Add documentMeaning-13
- 17:02:59 [ian__]
- s/documentMeaning-13/mixedNamespaceMeaning-13/
- 17:03:28 [ian__]
- PC to TBL: Since this appears to be a hot item, please kick off this issue on www-tag before the next meeting.
- 17:03:57 [ian__]
- Action TBL: I will start discussion on www-tag.
- 17:04:40 [ian__]
- ADJOURNED