IRC log of tagmem on 2002-02-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:04:52 [TimBL]
Zakim, who is here?
16:04:53 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Cannes, TBray, Roy
16:05:27 [TimBL]
Zakim, Cannes holds Ian, Norm, Chris, Steve,
16:05:28 [Zakim]
+Ian, Norm, Chris, Steve; got it
16:05:46 [TimBL]
Zakim, Cannes also holds Stuart
16:05:47 [Zakim]
+Stuart; got it
16:06:48 [TimBL]
Zakim, where is the RDF?
16:06:49 [Zakim]
sorry, TimBL, I do not understand your question
16:08:02 [ian__]
TBL: For panel: depth first or breadth-first?
16:08:53 [ian__]
NW: If we've started depth-first, let's not abandon in the middle.
16:09:43 [ian__]
+David Orchard
16:10:15 [ian__]
16:10:24 [ian__]
1) Reporting to the AC
16:10:33 [ian__]
2) W3C Track in Hawaii
16:10:48 [ian__]
3) Depth-first or breadth-first on tackling issues?
16:11:04 [ian__]
TBL: I hear we should go depth-first while in the middle of technical issues
16:11:12 [ian__]
4) Tech plenary panel
16:11:35 [ian__]
5) XML namespaces
16:11:55 [ian__]
CL: I think it's good to go depth-first. The public can shred things / help us a lot.
16:12:10 [ian__]
TBL: TOC is updated:
16:12:13 [ian__]
+Dan Connolly
16:12:34 [ian__]
16:13:47 [ian__]
TBL: I welcome feedback on TOC.
16:13:53 [ian__]
+ Paul Cotton.
16:14:24 [ian__]
Action: Add toc to
16:14:31 [ian__]
s/Action:/Action: IJ/
16:15:57 [ian__]
16:17:45 [ian__]
zakim, Cannes holds Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian
16:17:46 [Zakim]
+Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian; got it
16:17:57 [ian__]
zakim, who is here
16:17:58 [Zakim]
ian__, you need to end that query with '?'
16:18:02 [ian__]
zakim, who is here?
16:18:03 [Zakim]
I see TimBL, Cannes, TBray, Roy
16:18:04 [Zakim]
Cannes has Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian
16:18:25 [ian__]
zakim, Cannes holds Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian, DanC
16:18:26 [Zakim]
+Chris, Norm, Paul, David, SteveB, Stuart, Ian, DanC; got it
16:18:50 [ian__]
16:19:27 [ian__]
1) Tech plenary panel
16:19:49 [ian__]
PC summarizing TP planning meeting today:
16:19:54 [ian__]
a) NW will explain what the TAG is.
16:20:18 [ian__]
b) DC (PC expects) will talk about what the TAG is doing.
16:20:23 [ian__]
[20 mins for questions]
16:20:36 [ian__]
c) We will occupy 2 BOF tables at lunch.
16:21:10 [ian__]
(say, 2 volunteers at 2 tables)
16:21:43 [ian__]
d) End of day session (town hall). Moderators will appear at this panel (not entire TAG).
16:22:44 [ian__]
PC: So open issue is what DC will present.
16:23:18 [ian__]
TBL: I think it's a good idea to rotate who appears at town hall.
16:23:28 [ian__]
DO volunteers to represent the TAG at town hall.
16:24:28 [ian__]
DC talk:
16:25:42 [ian__]
PC: I had suggested: (1) pointing to issues list (2) showing what we've done (3) ask other groups how they would solve some issues.
16:26:04 [TimBL]
16:26:56 [TimBray]
16:27:54 [ian__]
[Discussion about whether TAG should be primarily responding to issues or primarily writing about web architecture, or both. And in what proportion.]
16:28:56 [ian__]
TBL: Our end goal is to produce and arch document (that will change over time). We are working from the middle out. Top-down architectures don't work anyway. We can't only bottom-up either. We are using the issues people have pointed out to us to indicate where the urgency is.
16:29:42 [ian__]
PC: I'd like an agenda for our next meeting to talk about what active items we can do in the creative writing space.
16:30:17 [ian__]
...e.g., dropping text from existing documents in toc.
16:30:23 [ian__]
...we need to have done this by May 2002.
16:31:34 [TimBL]
ack t
16:32:01 [ian__]
TB: I agree with PC's intro - my takeaway from ftf was that NW would do intro and charter, and DC would look at concrete examples.
16:32:33 [ian__]
TB: I like DC's slides, but I thought we agreed to something different.
16:32:53 [ian__]
DC: "Crash Course in Arch". Is that the right title?
16:32:59 [ian__]
TB: Should be "What the TAG has been working on"
16:33:48 [ian__]
TBL: Show 4 broad headings of TOC as a slide.
16:34:10 [ian__]
..".e.g., we are elaborating this and, for example, we got a question about whether to deprecate GET..."
16:35:03 [ian__]
PC: I suggest "Defining the Web Architecture".
16:35:17 [ian__]
[Agreement that that sounds good.]
16:35:55 [ian__]
DO: My only concern with "Defining" is that some people may not agree. Whereas we do know what our issues are...
16:36:29 [ian__]
TB: That's covered by NW's talk.
16:37:14 [ian__]
TB: I think DC's talk should list (in passing) the issues list.
16:39:09 [ian__]
TBL: What you have to get across is the mixture of states: some principles are bakes, some parts are not as clear.
16:40:05 [ian__]
DC: Yes, it would work to show breadth and depth.
16:40:17 [ian__]
16:40:32 [ian__]
W3C Track in Hawaii?
16:41:00 [ian__]
16:41:02 [ian__]
16:42:00 [ian__]
PC: Some times people I've talked to are surprised by what we are doing.
16:42:08 [ian__]
...our charter says we will report to AC.
16:42:12 [ian__]
....AB does this.
16:42:34 [ian__]
...I suggest writing a monthly report to be sent to AC reps.
16:42:48 [ian__]
...e.g., issues resolved in last month, issues we are currently working on.
16:43:05 [ian__]
CL: People want distilled information.
16:43:18 [ian__]
IJ: Should be public.
16:44:25 [ian__]
IJ: I can live with summaries of state changes in issues list.
16:44:32 [ian__]
CL: I don't think that it's necessary to summarize the arguments, for example.
16:46:03 [ian__]
IJ: I suggest also sending summary to Chairs.
16:46:50 [ian__]
DO: I don't think the summary should only talk about what we've done. Should also talk about work we think we will be working on.
16:48:38 [ian__]
16:48:52 [ian__]
- TAG will produce public monthly summary, looking forward and backward.
16:49:07 [ian__]
Action IJ and PC: Produce a proposal for review by TAG that will look backward to what we've done so far.
16:49:39 [ian__]
16:49:44 [ian__]
W3C Track in Hawaii?
16:49:49 [ian__]
PC: See my email.
16:50:04 [ian__]
Who will be in Hawaii?
16:50:20 [ian__]
TB - I won't be there during the week.
16:50:33 [ian__]
(Everyone else will be there.)
16:50:49 [ian__]
Dates of Hawaii meetings:
16:50:59 [Zakim]
16:51:00 [ian__]
* 4-13 May 2002: AC meeting, WWW2002. '
16:51:02 [TimBray]
16:51:08 [ian__]
16:51:08 [ian__]
* 4 May: AB ftf meeting (decided 14 Jan 2002 teleconf)
16:51:08 [ian__]
* 5 May: TAG ftf meeting
16:51:08 [ian__]
* 6-7 May: AC meeting
16:51:08 [ian__]
* 7-11 May: WWW2002
16:51:09 [ian__]
* 12-13 May: Team meeting (per 31 Jan global comm meeting)
16:51:12 [ian__]
16:52:30 [ian__]
PC: The proposal is that there be a TAG track on Weds.
16:52:31 [ian__]
16:53:16 [ian__]
TBL: Next meeting, we will have more technical content, pick up where we left off on xml namespaces.
16:53:47 [ian__]
I'd like to include in the discussion the general question about how to define the meaning of a document that includes xslt, xinclude, and xml encryption (and xml query).
16:54:05 [ian__]
...They look like functions. There needs to be some architecture for that; may need to spin off to another group.
16:55:53 [ian__]
PC: XML Processing Workshop minutes are homework.
16:57:12 [ian__] particular, there was a poll conducted at the end.
16:57:57 [ian__]
Action PC and DO: Send some sense of what happened at the workshop to the TAG. Visibility depends on Workshop visibility.
16:59:36 [ian__]
CL: There are 2 constituencies - those who want a particular processing order, those who don't.
16:59:44 [ian__]
TBL: This is a problem with defining a processing model.
17:00:08 [ian__]
17:02:08 [ian__]
Action IJ: INclude new issue in issues list.
17:02:19 [ian__]
Resolved: Add documentMeaning-13
17:02:59 [ian__]
17:03:28 [ian__]
PC to TBL: Since this appears to be a hot item, please kick off this issue on www-tag before the next meeting.
17:03:57 [ian__]
Action TBL: I will start discussion on www-tag.
17:04:40 [ian__]