See also: IRC log
<scribe> Scribe: Peter Linss
<scribe> Scribenick: plinss
nm: Jonathan you expect not to be at the f2f?
jar: that's correct
nm: there will be a call next week
... approval of prior minutes
<masinter> I can scribe next week most likely
nm: any objections to approving aug 2nd?
RESOLUTION: approved minutes of aug 2
<nmendels> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/08/30-minutes
nm: minutes of aug 30?
RESOLUTION: minutes of aug 30 approved
nm: robin berjon will be leaving the tag
... everyone involved with robin's work please review actions and propose a way forward
... larry prepared a fpwd of publishing and linking
yl: it will be ready tomorrow and published next tuesday
<nmendels> ACTION-733?
<trackbot> ACTION-733 -- Larry Masinter to prepare for 30 minute report on HTTP 2.0/SPDY at October 2012 F2F -- due 2012-09-28 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/733
<nmendels> ACTION-732?
<trackbot> ACTION-732 -- Larry Masinter to prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-09-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/732
nm: can we close this action?
<nmendels> close ACTION-732
<trackbot> ACTION-732 prepare FPWD on Publishing and Linking closed
lm: yes
nm: I assume we want one or more sessions at the f2f on this
... we want comments before then
lm: might be more appropriate for tpac agenda, we can be more visible there
... who else will be at tpac
am: I will me there
ht: probable
yl: no
pl: I will be there
nm: yves can you please update publishing and linking to reflect that we want comments by early october
... my availability continues to get worse, if there are problems please raise them
... action 733 listed in the agenda was supposed to be 732
<masinter> action-726?
<trackbot> ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
<nmendels> AACTION-726?
<nmendels> ACTION-726?
<trackbot> ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
<nmendels> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Sep/0007.html
<jar> Mark N's email re CORS: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2012Sep/0011.html
jar: we were watching this argument between tyler close who was bringing up issues with the approach taken in cors and how the issues were going to be addressed
... the editor drafted text to put into the security considerations sections, it's there, no response from tyler yet
... tim's concerned, larry's concerned and I'm concerned about this
... it's questionable if this has received adequate review
<masinter> if i'm concerned, i don't remember why, i've been more concerned about "web+" and registerProtocolHandler
<masinter> at least lately
jar: I asked thom as about this and he thinks it has adequate review
... mark nottingham said cors had a particular use case, not general, but deployed, let's just move forward with it, does not vulnerability a concern
nm: is the proposal that there seems to be community consensus about this and the tag should not do anything more on it?
jar: I supose
<masinter> I wouldn't go with "community consensus"
<masinter> I think there is "adequate review in the community for this not to require TAG mixing in"
nm: note to include this in tag status reports
<nmendels> close ACTION-726
<trackbot> ACTION-726 Make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. closed
jar: if anyone wants to review security, the third item was interesting and is good to review
<masinter> reopen action-726
<trackbot> ACTION-726 Make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. re-opened
<jar> close action-695
<trackbot> ACTION-695 Check with Thomas Roessler on whether security review of CORS is coming up in W3C/IETF liaison closed
<nmendels> ACTION-726?
<trackbot> ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
<nmendels> Context was TAG effectiveness discussion at June F2F
jar: does anyone like what I did?
<nmendels> Ah...so "deconvolving particulars...." meant "separately stating the goals", then I think that indeed is very useful. Somehow I missed that in a quick skim.
jar: you could look at the scope of the tag and if what we're doing is descriptive, how do you set a scope on that?
... that's completely open ended, if we had a a set of objectives we'd know where to stop
<Zakim> ht, you wanted to say 'yes'
ht: I found this helpful
nm: how do we take this forward?
jar: the point of this is dealing with change
... I had an idea about how the objectives should be formulated
... if people like this matrix, we can refine the matrix, or expand it
<jar> matrix is here: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2012/09/action-726
<Zakim> ht, you wanted to comment
ht: I think it's right to think of this as for us, but also as public
<ht> ht: By making it public, we help people see what it is we think we are doing
<masinter> present this at TPAC?
jar: I can do more work on this but didn't want to unless I got some encouragement
<Zakim> masinter, you wanted to suggest considering working on turning this into a TPAC presentation
nm: do we need to do more to make this more visible?
lm: should we present this at tpac?
nm: people could read this as a work plan for the tag and that's not what it means
<masinter> could we turn this into a preface/introduction to AWWW?
<masinter> i'm just brainstorming possible deliverables
<nmendels> I'll get to that next Larry
<nmendels> I likely wont be at TPAC either
nm: should we aim for tpac with this?
jar: I won't be there
... what we need next is testing, test the findings against the chart
<Zakim> ht, you wanted to argue against REC
nm: what if we tried for a rec called "goals of the www"
ht: I think this should be lightweight, not a rec, this is a tool
<nmendels> What if we then make it sort of like our Product Page. I.e. part of the TAG's Web presence.
<nmendels> We take responsibility for that, but can update it on no notic
<ht> Yes, analogy to Product Page
<ht> It's a product page for the whole TAG
<masinter> I'm looking for more means where we communicate with others outside the TAG and let others give us feedback
<nmendels> So, the product page stuff is like that
<nmendels> Concrete proposal:
<nmendels> 1) Clean it up for public consumption
<nmendels> 2) Publish like our Product Pages as our living document
<nmendels> 3) Talk at TPAC etc
jar: that's fine, but it's an opportunity, not why I did this
... I don't think we should be dogmatic
... this was to make us more effective
nm: how can we move this forward?
jar: I'm willing to spend more time on it before the f2f
nm: I propose we take the discussion to email, you can tune the document based on the feedback
<nmendels> ACTION: Noah to schedule another discussion of World Wide Web Objectives Matrix per ACTION-726 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/13-tagmem-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-738 - Schedule another discussion of World Wide Web Objectives Matrix per ACTION-726 [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2012-09-20].
<nmendels> ACTION-726?
<trackbot> ACTION-726 -- Jonathan Rees to make a list of questions to which webarch and the findings suggest answers, as input to possible 'study design' and/or communication to chairs etc. -- due 2012-09-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/726
nm: I asked everyone to handle this via email to me
<nmendels> E-mail on offline apps -- want at FF 30 mins
am: I sent some email about offline apps, I'd like 30 mins for that
<masinter> At F2F could spend time preparing for TPAC presentations / discussions? Timely
am: I've been working on p&l with larry, and starting thinking about offline apps
nm: maybe we need time for a major discussion on the scope of offline apps
<masinter> Now that P&L is out, I might want time to talk about governanceFramework if I can get time to update it
am: we need time to figure out the scope and if what I speak about in the email is something the tag should be involved in
<nmendels> Jeni wrote in email: on two documents: an update to the Fragid document taking into account the comments that we've received on it, which we can then review for publication at the F2F; and a 'primer' on the httpRange-14 resolution which we can similarly review (I can hope for publication but am doubtful that we'll get agreement on it).
<masinter> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/governanceFramework-2012-07-19.html
lm: I have a couple of things I may need time for: the governance framework, I don't have the document ready now
<masinter> I'm working on a major rewrite
<masinter> the scope is still the same... kind of generall "how W3C and policy issues interact"
<nmendels> I'm thinking this is generally uner the umbrella of P&L?
nm: I think of governance as a sub topic under p&l, is that now a separate issue?
<nmendels> Schdule governance separately from P&L?
<nmendels> LM: Yes
lm: it's more of a spin off, yes
<masinter> I'm working on a major rewrite
am: I think we're going to publish it on it's own, it has a different slant
<masinter> a short session would be ok
<masinter> like 30-60 minutes
am: but I'd like to see them tied together
<masinter> yes and after P&L is fine
lm: the other things are more speculative, probably won't be ready in time
<ht_home> I've lost audio
<masinter> if there's time and I make progress on 'evolution'
<masinter> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Evolution
<masinter> do we want time on registerProtocolHandler and the web+xxx URI scheme pattern?
jar: I wanted to mention: henry and jeni and I did a lot of work though june, we should report on that
... one is the work on the general approach
nm: can you make a proposal in the next 2-3 weeks how to spend time on this
<jar> ht: We have to decide at f2f how to discharge the social debt incurred by the consultation exercise
ht: half a day
jar: I drafted a report on awwsw, the task group, I'd like time to discuss at the f2f
<ht_home> AWWSW ==, informally, Architecture of the World Wide Semantic Web
jar: 30 minutes to review the report
... this depends on getting another signer from awwsw
<jar> the task group's objective would be to get accept/reject from the TAG on a final report for the group
nm: who's seats are up in the next election?
am: mine
pl: mine
lm: mine
<jar> as chair I'm hopeful that the AWWSW group will be ready by the time of the TAG F2F to ask the TAG for such a decision… that's the reason to schedule f2f time
<nmendels> ACTION-735?
<trackbot> ACTION-735 -- Yves Lafon to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-09-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/735
<nmendels> ACTION-735?
<trackbot> ACTION-735 -- Yves Lafon to check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness -- due 2012-09-06 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/735
<nmendels> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/tag/2012Sep/0000.html
tbl: maybe a subset of the tag should meet with the ab at tpac
<nmendels> Please remind Tim I will not be at TPAC
tbl: it could just be a lunch
<nmendels> close ACTION-735
<trackbot> ACTION-735 Check on AB interest in TAG effectiveness closed
<nmendels> ACTION-737?
<trackbot> ACTION-737 -- Yves Lafon to on Tuesday 4 Sept, if no objections, publish FPWD on Publishing and Linking -- due 2012-09-06 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/737
<nmendels> ACTION-718?
<trackbot> ACTION-718 -- Ashok Malhotra to propose goals and success critera for TAG work on architectural issues relating to storage sync, linked data, etc. -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/718
jar: action 718 (storage) is an example of what I think the matrix could be used for
<nmendels> ACTION-714?
<trackbot> ACTION-714 -- Noah Mendelsohn to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714
<masinter> PING
<nmendels> PONG
<masinter> there is a Privacy INterest group
nm: maybe yves could pick up action 714?
yl: sure
nm: if you could draft something and send to the tag for review
<nmendels> ACTION-714?
<trackbot> ACTION-714 -- Yves Lafon to communicate that tThe TAG thinks the W3C should have a working group working on Privacy, with scope to include the area covered by the "Some Patterns..." document currently under development in the TAG -- due 2012-09-11 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/714
<masinter> http://www.w3.org/Privacy/
yl: I might start first by talking to people in w3c working on privacy
jar: the "some patterns..." is the thing dan started and robin worked on
<nmendels> ACTION-692?
<trackbot> ACTION-692 -- Noah Mendelsohn to consider JAR's april request to discuss, for 10 mins, issues list at oct f2f -- due 2012-09-10 -- OPEN
<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/692
nm: meeting adjourned, there will be a call next week
<nmendels> We are ADJOURNED
<Yves> http://arstechnica.com/security/2012/09/crime-hijacks-https-sessions/