Minutes for the W3C XML Protocol Working Group Wednesday, 3 January, 2001, noon PST, duration 90 minutes.

See also:

1. Roll call, scribes for minutes/action items (5 mins)

Present 46/37

Active Data Exchange     Richard Martin
Allaire   Glen Daniels
AT&T Mark Jones
Bowstreet Alex Ceponkus
Calico Commerce     Rekha Nagarajan
Canon     Herve Ruellan
Cisco     Krishna Sankar
Compaq    Kevin Perkins
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Mario Jeckle
Data Research Associates Mark Needleman
DataChannel    Brian Eisenberg
DevelopMentor  Martin Gudgin
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Kazunori Iwasa
Engenia Software    Jeffrey Kay
Engenia Software    Eric Jenkins
Group 8760     Dick Brooks
Hewlett Packard     David Ezell
Hewlett Packard     Stuart Williams
IBM  David Fallside
IBM  John Ibbotson
Informix Software   Soumitro Tagore
Intel     Randy Hall
IONA Technologies   Oisin Hurley
Jamcracker     David Orchard
Library of Congress Ray Denenberg
Microsoft Corporation    Henrik Nielsen
Netscape  Vidur Apparao
Netscape  Ray Whitmer
OMG  Henry Lowe
Oracle    David Clay
Oracle    Jim Trezzo
Progress Software   Andrew Eisenberg
Rogue Wave     Murali Janakiraman
SAP AG    Volker Wiechers
Software AG    Michael Champion
Sun Microsystems    Ed Mooney
Sun Microsystems    Mark Baker
Tibco     Frank DeRose
Unisys    Lynne Thompson
Unisys    Nick Smilonich
W3C  Yves Lafon
W3C  Hugo Haas
WebMethods     Randy Waldrop
Xerox     Bill Anderson
Xerox     Tom Breuel
XMLSolutions   Kevin Mitchel

Automatically excused

Active Data Exchange     Eric Fedok
Allaire   Simeon Simeonov
Bowstreet James Tauber
Canon     Jean-Jacques Moreau
Compaq    Yin-Leng Husband
DaimlerChrysler R. & Tech     Andreas Riegg
DataChannel    Yan Xu
DevelopMentor  Don Box
Fujitsu Software Corporation  Masahiko Narita
IBM  Fransisco Cubera
Informix Software   Charles Campbell
IONA Technologies   Eric Newcomer
Library of Congress Rich Greenfield
Microsoft Corporation    Paul Cotton
Progress Software   David Cleary
Rogue Wave     Patrick Thompson
SAP AG    Gerd Hoelzing
Software AG    Dietmar Gaertner
XMLSolutions   John Evdemon


Akamai Technologies Mark Nottingham
Philips Research    Yasser alSafadi
Philips Research    Amr Yassin
Mitre     Marwan Sabbouh
Mitre     Paul Denning

Absent without explanation

Commerce One   David Burdett
Commerce One   Murray Maloney
Epicentric     Bjoern Heckel
Epicentric     Dean Moses
Lotus Development   Noah Mendelsohn
NCR  Vilhelm Rosenqvist
NCR  Lew Shannon
Vitria Technology Inc.   Waqar Sadiq
Vitria Technology Inc.   Richard Koo

2. Agenda review, call for AOB (5 mins)

3.  E-mail approval of F2F Minutes

David Fallside proposed that comments/corrections on the merged formal minutes and conversational notes be sent to him by EOB Thursday, 4-Jan-2001.   Any requests for removal of items before posting to the xml-dist-app list should be directed to David Fallside by EOB Friday, 5-Jan-2001.  The minutes will then be posted to xml-dist-app.

Status:  Approved

4. Approval of minutes from 20-Dec-2000 Telecon 

Ed Mooney requested clarification of DS (Draft Scenario) abbreviation in 20-Dec-2000 minutes.  Yves Lafon to make the clarification in the minutes which were approved.  Minutes for 20-Dec-2000 teleconference can be found at:  http://www.w3.org/2000/xp/Group/0/12/20-pminutes 

5. Review action items (5 mins)

2000/11/15: Glen Daniels
Lead a group converting DR805, R807, DR809, DR810 into use cases.
Status:  Holidays slowed progress on this.  With clarification regarding the appropriate level of abstraction, this item should now make rapid progress.
2000/12/13: David Ezell
Propose an eventual resolution, which could be how to take 305 to "R" status, drop it, etc. as appropriate.
Status: Done.  Proposed wording discussed as part of agenda item 6 Requirements Document
2000/12/13: David Fallside
Do legal search on XP trademark conflicts, etc.
Status:  Research was complete but additional research is needed.  David Fallside asked Yves Lafon to investigate W3C requirements.  If needed, additional legal assistance may be solicited from the XP WG membership.

6. Requirements Document (45 mins)

Process for handling comments made against the requirements document working draft 

David Fallside proposed a process for handling comments made against the requirements document working draft:


It suggested that xml-dist-app is already archived so no other action would be necessary

David Fallside:  The working group needs a way to capture and cleanly disposition all comments and provide an audit trail for decisions based on comments so the xml-dist-app archive is not sufficient.

A general discussion occurred regarding posting a pointer to the requirements document as well as a request for comment on the following lists:

A suggestion was made that a deadline for comments be set.  David Fallside suggested 12-January-2001.  Responding to a question from Lynne regarding what the limit should be on the review cycle, David said that the WG is required to publish something new every 3 months so this deadline would give the working group sufficient time to address comments and disposition appropriately.

David Clay asked whether the request for comments included the Draft Scenarios section

David Fallside:  Draft Scenarios will be handled separately.

Ed Mooney:  Can we send a request for comments to ebXML and IETF.  Dick Brooks will send the request to ebXML.  Yves Lafon will work with IETF to determine the appropriate audience for the request for comment via an internal mailing list used for communication between W3C and IETF.

Martin Gudgin to post a draft note.

Proposal:  Publish a note on xml-dist-app, soap@discuss.develop.com, soap-dev@xml.apache.org and xml-dev requesting comments on the requirements document with a deadline of 12-January-2001.  Proposal was approved and the note will be published on 4-January-2001. 


See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2000Dec/0267.html  for proposed wording.  Discussion led by David Ezell.   There are a number of items that are considered out-of-scope but will exert strong influence over design.  Concern was expressed by several that the last section of proposed rewording might prejudice the design.  It was also not clear how meeting this requirement as worded could be measured.

Henrik Frystyk Nielsen suggested that this requirement is already covered by the charter.  

Ray Denenberg suggested the addition of an enumerated list of features that could be extended with a note indicating that there is no guarantee that the features would be implemented by the XML Protocol working group.

David Fallside proposed taking this requirement and repurposing it as a preamble paragraph.  David Ezell will reword this as a preamble paragraph by EOB Monday, 8-January-2001.


See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/xml-dist-app/2000Dec/0266.html  for proposed wording.  Discussion led by David Ezell who noted that this has become a direct support statement for memory or resource-constrained devices.  Concern was expressed that the use of the XHTML example may imply modularization in XP rather than around XP.  It was also noted that the definition of "XML processing environment" is not clear and means different things to different people.  

David Fallside proposed a simplification of this draft requirement by changing the wording to the following:

"XML Protocol should support applications which will work on resource constrained devices."

Proposal passed.  David Ezell to provide wording and will submit revision by EOB 3-January-2001. 

Agenda Change

David Fallside noted that due to shortage of time, it would not be possible to adequately cover the discussion of use cases.  He suggested deferring this item to a future meeting and that the group use remaining time to discuss handling new versions of the requirements working draft.  The agenda change was accepted.

Handling New Versions of Requirements Working Draft

It was suggested that we need a way to manage revisions to the working draft.  Working from multiple versions will create problems for discussions on xml-dist-app.  David Fallside will work with W3C to develop a proposal for handling this.

7. Use cases (15 mins)

Discussion of use cases and tracking of use cases in the draft requirements document was tabled due to time constraints.

8. Any Other Business (5 mins)

Randy Hall noted that the current teleconference schedule runs through January 17 and suggested we schedule 10 additional teleconferences.  Randy will take care of scheduling and send logistics to Hugo and Yves.

David Fallside mentioned that there are 100 places reserved for the W3C Plenary.  Given the size of XP, this constitutes 48% of available slots.  He suggested that those who would like to attend the plenary register sooner rather than later.  Ray asked how important the plenary meeting was, estimate from David  was medium to high level of importance because it's useful to understand what's going on in other groups.

Meeting concluded at 1:30pm PST. 

List of New Action Items