- From: r12a <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2021 10:06:50 +0100
- To: www-international@w3.org
- Message-ID: <5c74c63a-4c09-84e7-43da-3cd70b1a3098@w3.org>
https://www.w3.org/2021/04/22-i18n-minutes.html
– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
22 April 2021
[2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.
[2] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2021Apr/0009.html
[3] https://www.w3.org/2021/04/22-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
Addison, Atsushi, Felix, Fuqiao, Richard
Regrets
JcK, john
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
fsasaki
Contents
1. [4]Agenda
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Info Share
4. [7]RADAR and Active Work Review
5. [8]Scribing
6. [9]Specdev error message text
7. [10]epub encoding
8. [11]Page Numbering
9. [12]Shadow DOM
10. [13]AOB?
11. [14]Summary of action items
Meeting minutes
<addison> trackbot, prepare teleconference
<addison> @Bert: see above
Agenda
addison: added page numbering and pull request about spec dev
xfq: encoding in epub
Action Items
<addison> [15]https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/
open
[15] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
r12a: bidi keywords not yet
<addison> action-989?
<trackbot> [16]action-989: Addison Phillips to Check tus and if
necessary ping unicode folks about d145 normalization case fold
ordering questions -- due 2021-01-21 -- OPEN
[16] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/989
addison: next utc meeting is coming up, hope to discuss the
topic via that channel
<addison> action-996?
<trackbot> [17]action-996: Addison Phillips to Follow up with
mark davis on liaison status and google participation -- due
2021-02-25 -- OPEN
[17] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/996
<addison> close action-996
<trackbot> Closed action-996.
addison: 996 is stale
<addison> action-1015?
<trackbot> [18]action-1015: Addison Phillips to Harvest useful
text from geolocation 50 for specdev -- due 2021-04-15 -- OPEN
[18] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1015
addison: done
<addison> close action-1015
<trackbot> Closed action-1015.
<addison> action-1016?
<trackbot> [19]action-1016: Richard Ishida to Fix stylesheets
using logical properties etc. -- due 2021-04-22 -- OPEN
[19] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1016
r12a: done
<addison> close action-1016
<trackbot> Closed action-1016.
r12a: one thing I did not change: "margin" and "for" values
r12a: detailed logical properties work
… what does not work: margin with two or four values
… changing that in the stylesheet would mean: create four lines
instead of one
… it would not break anything, but in our stylesheets we would
have four lines
addison: changing the shorthand from physical to logical
r12a: that is the problem, still being discussed in CSS
… that is the outstanding item about logical properties
<xfq> [20]https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1282
[20] https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/1282
r12a: apart from shorthands and float and clear, all has been
changed
… looked also at the way we handle language and fonts
… you will see a big difference of how we handle fonts now in
our articles
… I went through all fonts we are using in our articles
… made a checklist what languages they support
… then developed fallback strategies
… stylesheets now say: use railway for ..., then for language
... another font
… if you have some ideas how to improve this, let me know
action-1017?
<trackbot> [21]action-1017: Addison Phillips to Send wpwg list
of specs that implement lang/dir -- due 2021-04-22 -- OPEN
[21] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1017
addison: pending
<addison> action-1018?
<trackbot> [22]action-1018: Addison Phillips to Establish
rotating scribe list and add it to the agenda -- due 2021-04-22
-- OPEN
[22] https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/1018
addison: done
<addison> close action-1018
<trackbot> Closed action-1018.
Info Share
<r12a-again> [23]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/
qa-html-dir.en
[23] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-html-dir.en
r12a: rewrite of article on structural markup and rtl text
… previous version had a lot of stuff saying "there is this new
stuff ..."
… now many of these things just work
… new article does not mention things like "problem with IE"
etc. anymore
… added section on how to work with forms
… still work in progress, if you have feeback, let me know
… article also implements the new look and feel
… article has a related article about inline markp and bidi
text
<addison> [24]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/
qa-html-dir.en
[24] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/questions/qa-html-dir.en
<r12a-again> [25]https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/
inline-bidi-markup/index.en.html
[25] https://w3c.github.io/i18n-drafts/articles/inline-bidi-markup/index.en.html
r12a: this is a quite long article, have shortened it a lot
… many parts are worked examples, put the stuff into a separate
document
… no uploaded version yet, will show that in due course
… hopening that we have a much more concise explanation how to
work with bidi
felix: great timing for me to use this in my i18n lecture
r12a: will upload the inline doc soon and let you know
RADAR and Active Work Review
<addison> [26]https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
[26] https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
addison: no new requests, it seems
r12a to work on logical properties
Scribing
addison: established rotation in agenda
… any objection in being included in rotation? John already did
r12a: objecting too, for various reasons
… but I understand that this makes the scribe list much smaller
… doing recording and then editing minutes would be too time
consuming
addison: so we do a rotation, or is there anybody who would do
this more regular?
… so I will reduce rotation to people who are willing to scribe
addison: anything people want to discuss on webpayments this
week?
nothing it seems
Specdev error message text
<addison> [27]https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55
[27] https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/pull/55
addison: included stuff I got from geolocation
… moved existing text round a bit, comments welcome
<addison> [28]https://aphillips.github.io/
bp-i18n-specdev/#localization
[28] https://aphillips.github.io/bp-i18n-specdev/#localization
addison: please provide comments now or to the PR
r12a: still not sure about our term "natural language"
… should change it to "human readable text" or "user directed
text"
… or "@@@ oriented"
addison: you are talking about use of "natural language" in
sec. 9.6 and 9.6.1?
r12a: yes
addison: didn't we have a defintion in charmod?
r12a: yes, but now we have a clearer understanding about the
topic
<addison> [29]http://aphillips.github.io/
charmod-norm/#terminology
[29] http://aphillips.github.io/charmod-norm/#terminology
r12a: the label "natural language" does not quite describe the
aspect we mean
addison: do we need to revise terminology in charmod?
r12a: I think so
addison: do we pull that into spec dev?
r12a: could do
felix: ltli also has a definition of "natural language"
<addison> [30]https://w3c.github.io/ltli/#language-terminology
[30] https://w3c.github.io/ltli/#language-terminology
addison: that definition is much closer to what richard is
talking about
… that is the BCP 47 definition
r12a: another reason for changing charmod, because it conflicts
with the definition in LTLI
addison: todos: fix terminology in spec dev, examine charmod &
do edits, ensure that specdev itself is consistent, and look at
string meta
Action: addison to fix terminology on natural language in spec
dev
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1019 - Fix terminology on natural
language in spec dev [on Addison Phillips - due 2021-04-29].
Action: addison to examine charmod related to natural language
& do edits
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1020 - Examine charmod related to
natural language & do edits [on Addison Phillips - due
2021-04-29].
Action: addison to ensupre that specdev itself is consistent
with regards to natural language
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1021 - Ensupre that specdev itself is
consistent with regards to natural language [on Addison
Phillips - due 2021-04-29].
Action: richard to look at string meta
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1022 - Look at string meta [on
Richard Ishida - due 2021-04-29].
epub encoding
<xfq_> [31]https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1628
[31] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1628
xfq: they mention css files and also xml files and media type
that must be utf-8 or utf-16
… I asked "why do you mention utf-16?"
… they did not find the reason, has been in the spec for a long
time
… they are concerned now about compatibility
… I proposed to add that utf-16 is deprecated, but still
allowed for CSS and XML
… for the media type, it is still utf-8 / utf-16
addison: that can be resolved with MUST and SHOULD
xfq: eBook publishers are very concerned if their book is valid
addison: sure. we could say: it MUST be in one of the two, and
it SHOULD be utf-8
discussion of what is stronger: "deprecated" or "SHOULD"
addison: OK with "deprecated"
xfq: fine by me too
+1
<atsushi> +1
r12a: ok
… xfq, will you let them know that we are ok with their
resolution?
xfq: sure
Page Numbering
<addison> [32]https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1505
[32] https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/issues/1505
addison: made comments, r12a was involved in discussion too
r12a: do they need an ID for each page, so that they can point
to it?
addison: yes
r12a: problem is how to point to a page if there are e.g. "two
page 3"? Which digit you used?
addison: real page number in physical manifestation opposed to
pages changing based on screen size etc.
r12a: look at page xyz means = you need to use the same type of
digits
addison: yes, and there are various schemes to number pages
… you cannot use them together in the same book
… question is: does that include native digits? yes
addison: can the numbers be non ascii digits? sure
… there are many other schemes you can use for numbering
r12a: need to read this in more detail
… I worry that they do not take into account section based
numbering
… and that the same number is used several times in the
document
… because the fragment IDs need to be unique
addison: they need to figure out a scheme to make the strings
unique
r12a: they have a fragment id and the content of the element,
which they would show the user
… question is how to generate a fragment id from what they show
to the user, if that is what they are doing?
addison: on some level the tokens do not matter, they are just
IDs
… they will be case sensitve, because upper and lower case page
numbering schemes exist
… charmod norm provides guidance on how to make the tokens
unique
suggestion to carry on the discussion in the issue
Shadow DOM
Action: addison: ping fantasai about shadow dom
<trackbot> Created ACTION-1023 - Ping fantasai about shadow dom
[on Addison Phillips - due 2021-04-29].
AOB?
Summary of action items
1. [33]addison to fix terminology on natural language in spec
dev
2. [34]addison to examine charmod related to natural language
& do edits
3. [35]addison to ensupre that specdev itself is consistent
with regards to natural language
4. [36]richard to look at string meta
5. [37]addison: ping fantasai about shadow dom
Received on Monday, 26 April 2021 09:06:58 UTC