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LAST-MODIFIED:20260218T184038Z
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TZID:Asia/Tokyo
X-MICROSOFT-CDO-TZID:20
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DTSTART:20241117T083000
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BEGIN:VEVENT
UID:505c634b-f4e2-460a-a620-60f9c89267f0
DTSTAMP:20260218T184038Z
SUMMARY:Fixing HTML element references (IDREFs) on the Web
DTSTART;TZID=Asia/Tokyo:20251112T173000
DTEND;TZID=Asia/Tokyo:20251112T183000
DESCRIPTION:https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/505c634b-f4e2-460a-a620-60f9
 c89267f0/\n\nThere’s been a lot of discussion recently about ways that H
 TML element references (IDREFs) could be augmented to improve both DX and 
 end-user experience - particularly with respect to accessibility - on the 
 platform. A range of solutions (and problems) have been posited and propos
 ed - but whilst there’s broad acknowledgement that there’s room for im
 provement\, we don’t have consensus as a community on exactly what the c
 hallenges are\, nor on the relative merits of various solutions that have 
 been proposed.\n\nMajor points of contention include:\n\n* The nature of t
 he DX problem or problems.\n\n* The costs and benefits of different soluti
 ons that have been proposed.\n\n* What research is needed to clarify the a
 bove\, and who is best placed to carry it out.\n\nDiscussion has been happ
 ening mainly in a [WHATWG thread](https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/10
 143) and in a recent [Accessible Platform Architectures (APA) WG call](htt
 ps://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2025Oct/0016.html). However\,
  two key documents to familiarise yourself with\, if you are interested in
  attending\, are:\n\n* [The explainer for the proposals](https://github.co
 m/webplatformco/explainers/blob/main/html-element-references/README.md)\n\
 n* [Alice's summary of the discussion and concerns](https://github.com/wha
 twg/html/issues/10143#issuecomment-3195739405)\n\nThis session aims to bri
 ng together the proposers and proponents\, and accessibility people\, in o
 rder to: \n\n* Come to agreement on how the problem could be clearly defin
 ed.\n\n* Dig into more details of the costs that accessibility people are 
 concerned about - and how those costs may be more clearly articulated.\n\n
 * Arrive at some concrete actions (user research\, clarification of propos
 als\, prototyping) that could move the conversation forward by providing f
 urther data.\n\n**Goal(s):**\nTo find areas of consensus regarding: the pa
 in points of IDREFs\; the expected costs and risks from an accessibility p
 erspective of making significant changes\; the possibilities for conductin
 g research to quantify the above.\n\nAgenda\n\n* Recap of the possible ben
 efits\n\n  - Improved accessibility by removing duplicate IDs\n  \n  - Imp
 roved DX by providing ways other than IDs to refer to related elements\n\n
 * Recap of the accessibility concerns\n\n  - Authoring-time\n\n    + Devel
 oper understanding of relative references\n\n    + Does HTML in the wild l
 end itself to relative references?\n\n  - Content maintenance\n\n    + Sta
 bility of references / possibility for footguns\n\n  - Browser implementat
 ion\n\n    + Burden of implementation - reverse refs\n\n  - Assistive Tech
 nology implementation \n\n    + Burden of performance - changes to documen
 t\n\n* Discussion about what user research would be helpful\n\n  - Quantif
 ying the problems\n\n    + What exactly are the pain points associated wit
 h the status quo? I.e. First\, we should ask developers what they struggle
  with currently.\n\n    + Does the fact that tooling provides workarounds 
 mitigate this?\n\n    + Is most HTML amenable to relative references?\n\n 
  - Justifying the development cost through end-user need: will this make p
 ages more accessible?\n\n* ...and how it might be carried out.\n\n  - Surv
 eys of the problems with the status quo (i.e. asking developers)\n\n  - Re
 cap of any results of research that has been done recently\n\n  - Finding 
 out who may be able to contribute to this work\n\n**Materials:**\n- [Sessi
 on proposal on GitHub](https://github.com/w3c/tpac2025-breakouts/issues/61
 )
STATUS:CONFIRMED
CREATED:20251028T131514Z
LAST-MODIFIED:20260218T184038Z
SEQUENCE:3
ORGANIZER;CN=W3C Calendar;PARTSTAT=ACCEPTED;ROLE=NON-PARTICIPANT:mailto:nor
 eply@w3.org
LOCATION:Floor 4 - 406
CATEGORIES:TPAC 2025,Breakout Sessions
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