date: Monday, 25 October 1999
chair: Len Kasday
scribe: Wendy Chisholm
Attendees: William Loughburough (WL), Chris Ridpath (CR), Len Kasday (LK), Michael Cooper (MC), Wendy Chisholm (WC), Brian Matheny (BM)
WAI technical highlight for AC presentation.
WL preface cookbook with curb-cuts argument. what we develop will help with usability as well as accessibilty.
LK Will often help usability?
WL evaluating for wheelchair makes it easier for stroller. enlighted self-interest.
WC call to action?
BM not sure stop gap? tool will link to. part of reason to keep separate.
LK AU should have standard interface to repair tools. at a min. pass URL. so human be applying results. ER tool gives back a machine readable account. here is where uses beyond accessibility come in.
WL model for E part there in form of validator. if fixed, then be ER tool.
WC don't push intergration, but connectivity.
LK modules cooperating over internet as architecture for things in general, not just ER tools. rather than one monolithic tool.
WL problem with built-in. e.g. take bobby build in then dno't up date. rather refer to one on web.
MC want mechaism to check if most up to date.
LK if want an online tool to communicate with AU, require significant effort to create info x-change format.
WL in the sense that come out with rec. should have some form of ER. if write html 4.1, then need validator.
WC xml - validate to DTD.
WL a mechanism that ensures conformance.
WC what tool to highlight?
WL bobby, A-prompt, ERT
LK we had input in altifier and Web Access Gateway.
MC hotmetal pro?
LK looking for significant interaction? or tools in general?
WC ER
LK report form.
/* discuss magpie and a-prompt */
@@ CR sending a-prompt to wendy today.
LK silas incorporated altifier.
/* discuss
LK modular for everything. word: spell checker, grammar checker, etc. want to mix and match from best vendors.
WL thus the expression, "the network is the computer."
wc summary
LK ways of guessing alt-text. in a-prompt. one dramatic thing: hand simulation which applied the rules. show up with page, show in lynx, Image image image. if applied rules, end up with x, y, z. not just hand-waving. would look like if applied these rules.
WC where is the list of rules?
LK chris do you have a link?
WL pie in the sky? the notion of a machine supplying alt is compelling but unlikely.
LK Do you mean unlikely b/c not able to implement? but some rules are so obvious. like, the altifier does some. the gateway already implemented some also. if text link and image link same place, put text link in image.
WC but no way to get 100%
WL like voice recognition. 95% better than 90%, but only use if have to. better than nothing. why not part of AU?
LK it is to the extent that the a-prompt paper is a reference of AU.
CR in ERT technique 1.1.A discusses some of these and links to daniel's paper.
WL don't want to get into a thing where someone can ignore author written alt-text b/c a machine will take care of.
LK right, we don't want to think they can forget about it.
WC a-prompt support tables.
WL forms. but we haven't done anything with.
LK problems that we don't have answers for: javascript and applets. gateway has a gateway for applets. look at param and say what they were. ignore colors. sometimes enough. if have javascript, we don't have good answers.
WL can it include challenges? here's what we've done, here's where we need help.
WC help or hope to go. here are the open issues.
LK another big open issue: making diagrams accessible.
WC guidelines for descriptiong from NBA help authors go through.
LK for some diagrams, it is not enough to have a prose description. you need an interactive description. like table - want to navigate around. flow diagram or schematic. Charles says that there is something like that for SVG. I am waiting to see it. it's like the problem with x-windows you can have something that looks at the elements, but looking at the semantics is tougher. not sure if svg has that. That's a major challenge, beyond ER, is PF as well.
WL talk to chris lilley about that. definitely in the future of graphics interpretation. if you want to talk to someone about the type of description, engineer bill gerrey. in a journal he explains how to wire up circuit boards. 415.345.2125. for 40 years he's been explaining to people who are blind how to get to his house.
WC what does a-prompt do best?
CR alt-text registry. go through all checkpoints in wai guideliens and conforms. once ERT done, then implemented in software
BM as much as we can. can't always verify, have to ask.
WC how much asking are you doing all ready?
BM - one where detect construct. "you've done this, does it comply?" near the end of the report.
LK rating algorithm that takes things the next step. user takes action. with alt-text. you have to put checkmark next to each alt-tag that this accurately describes. ascii-art NO i haven't (no check). only after done all of that, it comes back with, "congrats you are at least A maybe AA." @@ LK will link from ER page.
WL haven't used bobby in a while, still get lots of hats?
MC have cut down, still get some.
BM better identified. Browser compatability hats dropped since they were cluttering it up.
WC hot list? open issue list?
@@WC create one.
@@WC send outline to list. get review.